Photoshop Insider

Some Photoshop 7-Point-System Stuff

By Scott on Wednesday, November 28th, 2007 at 6:17 am | updates.

When I wrote it, one thing that never occurred to me was that people would be posting before/afters of their photography after applying my “Seven Point System for Adobe Photoshop CS3,” which was introduced in my latest book (of the same name), but they’re popping up everywhere (honestly, it’s so exciting to see my students doing this). Anyway, here are some examples I ran across this week (thanks to Google Alerts):

Jeff’s Photo Blog has some nice before/after examples from his using the book. Click here to see his examples.
Here’s another reader who posted some great examples (and I love his headline): Click here to jump there.
The Delta-Romeo blog has a mini-review and comment on the book right here.
And here’s some terrific shots of Mustangs (the cars, not the horses), and before/afters using “The System.”

Thanks so much to everyone out there who’s helping to spread the word about this new system. It really means a lot.

Comment form for this post

^#1

Scotty, is there some reason Peach Pit will not allow more than one lesson pics download from the same 7 point book ISBN #? You see, I have several homes from which I study your techniques and can only work on the practice pics from one location due to limited downloads…I’ve been zipping and forwarding but takes too long.

Then again I could sell one of my homes and alleviate the problem entirely.

Ned Leary on November 28th, 2007 at 7:13 am

^#2

Excellent book! I also reviewed it at http://pixveritas.com/scott_kelbys_7_point_system_adobe_photoshop_cs3

Gene McCullagh on November 28th, 2007 at 7:17 am

^#3

I got the book too and have found it very useful, as I have your Photoshop and Lightroom books. But here’s the thing. Step 1/7 covers Camera Raw or Lightroom and I have based my workflow on Lightroom now. Previously you said that 80% of your post-processing is done in Lightroom but the 7-point system makes that just 14% (1/7th).

Now I understand that not every step needs to be applied to every photo (and most need only the basic Lightroom/Camer Raw ones), but I feel that the 7-point system is taking me away from Lightroom and other great things I could be doing there and that I could then just finish off with a few steps in Photoshop.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this, or perhaps even read “The 7-point system for Lightroom, with a final couple of points in Photoshop” in the near future.

Marc Benjamin on November 28th, 2007 at 7:29 am

^#4

I have had your books for 2 weeks now. It surely put a lot of things in place. I read it cover to cover, and gave it a go in PS without the book opened. It had sticked indeed. This book, combined with the Elements Quick and Dirty Tricks are the foundation of my retouching.

I still saw a few places where I would like decisions to be more justified (why do, or not to for that matter, something on a particular picture). Also the step order are sometimes changed without explanation. Not very important, but I miss it.

This book is still a must-have for anyone starting getting somewhat serious about making his pictures better (and you probably are if you use PS, given the cost).

Christopher

Christopher on November 28th, 2007 at 9:14 am

^#5

I am happy the example you provided are not from top photographers. This makes for very realistic examples of what one might get, using your book as a guide. All pictures are mostly better after retouching, even though it also shows that retouching is a question of personal taste, as I felt some pictures were overdone, and white balance had been pushed too far. Buyt as I said, it’s personal!

Christopher on November 28th, 2007 at 9:18 am

^#6

The 7-Step book is the best book you have written yet! As a previous writer mentioned I have also moved almost totally to Lightroom. I understand that you can use LR as your raw converter and then open the photo in is Photoshop to make additional corrections. However, the problem comes when you want to open your raw photo as a Smart Object there is no way to do this from LR.

Scott, with the number of people using LR and now your great 7-Point System could you please write something about LR to PS to LR.

Fred Thurman on November 28th, 2007 at 10:13 am

^#7

Fred…I am having the same trouble with Smart Objects and Lightroom…what I have been doing to work around this (and believe me it is a LONG way around) is:
1. I do all my Lightroom edits as usual
2. Open Bridge and find shot
3. hit command R (mac) and open in Camera Raw to then convert to a Smart Object.

Please tell me there is an easier way!

Other than that…I LOVE LOVE this system! It is the ping and the zing. The best part for me after a month of using it is while in the field photographing I am seeing light much differently and when I import and look at the photos I know where to begin and end (for the most part).

Shrewspeaks on November 28th, 2007 at 10:38 am

^#8

Hi,

I am also experiencing issues with getting through the 7-Point system using Lightroom and Photoshop.

Same as Fred it is with the Smart Objects in Lesson 2. I tried to export the Lightroom adjusted image to Photoshop (as PSD) and then convert that layer to a smart object. It worked but when I then generate a smart object copy and double click it Photoshop opens it as a .psb file rather than opening it in Camera Raw.

So for now I will have to stick with Camera Raw to get through the book.

-Dave.

David Kerr on November 28th, 2007 at 10:59 am

^#9

Hopefully Scott will jump in and give us a hand with Lightroom and Smart Objects.

Also, when I use Shrewspeaks method I’m faced with the problem of getting the finished image back into Lightroom and stacked with it’s unaltered raw image.

Fred

Fred Thurman on November 28th, 2007 at 11:11 am

^#10

Scott, I too am interested in hearing how to more smoothly integrate Lightroom into thie 7 step process.

Miguel Marcos on November 28th, 2007 at 11:18 am

^#11

Ditto the previous comments. Like the “system” but I’m having a hard time figuring out how to utilize it with Lightroom. A version of your Chapter 21 “cheat sheet” using LR would be great.

AJK on November 28th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

^#12

Scott,

Scott,
I have only gotten through Lesson 7, but I am enjoying learning your 7-Point Approach and refreshing my memory on other techniques. I have also encountered the issue with Lesson #2 when starting from Lightroom and trying to follow your step by step instructions. I worked around the problem by opening the lesson image directly into Camera Raw using Photoshop CS3, but really want to know how to do it from Lightroom as that is my primary workflow. As I mentioned in a comment a week or so ago, the 7-point system does not appear to integrate seamlessly with Lightroom and I am glad to see that I am not alone in having the problem with Lesson #2. I also agree with Fred Thurman that using the system is making me a better photographer, although I know I still have a long way to go. Thanks for the book and the blog. I read it regularly and appreciate the links to other informative sites, many of which have joined your blog as daily must reads. Keep up the good work!!

Emmet Whitehead on November 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

^#13

Scott, great idea to post before/after. I also wrote a review of your book, and at the end I said how good it would be if you has some sort of 7-point system Web site where participants could post before/after shots and also get more practice/feedback. Maybe start a group on Flickr.
Here’s my review: http://www.mymac.com/showarticle.php?id=3096

Bakari on November 28th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

^#14

So, it appears that everyone has the same question I have. How to best integrate the 7-Point System with Lightroom Workflow. I am in the peculiar position right now that I’m just in the survey stage (on the verge of purchasing Lightroom) of moving my photo processing to the next level so I do a lot of reading, especially blogs. In fact, I’m still a Photoshop Elements 5 user as I have not yet gotten the courage to make the big jump to CS3. I would assume that the 7-Point System would mostly work with Elements as well (I haven’t actually got my book yet) but I suspect there may be some processes that are CS3 based. I too would like to see Scott weigh in on this discussion on a future post.

Dennis Dwyer on November 28th, 2007 at 4:36 pm

^#15

This books sounds great and is probably exactly what I need. Only problem I have is that I don’t own CS3 and I don’t think I ever will because it’s to costly for me. Do you have a book like this I can use with photoshop elements 5? I might consider upgrading to elements 6 if that would help me. Learning CS3 is to much of a learning curve for me. Or is it?

Antonino on November 28th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

^#16

I have been getting around the Lightroom to smart objects issue by doing the following…
- Make my raw edits in Lightroom
- Save Metadata in lightroom (Photo->Save Metadata to file)
- Inside light room drag the photo from the filmstrip view (bottom of screen) onto the PS3 icon (I have it in my dock) this opens the picture in Abobe Raw (providing it is a RAW file you drag)
- Then just Shift (Open Object)

-Mark

Mark Herring on November 28th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

^#17

How good does the book work with CS2 ( can’t afford CS3 )? Is it still useful or are the elementary parts CS3-stuff thingys?

sebsn on November 28th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

^#18

I am determined to get photoshop cs3 under control and have found it to be an amazing program. Books like your “7-point system” help a great deal. However, lesson 13 step 11 left me behind because the two images were not the same size. My “good sky” image was a 4×6 and of course it would not align on the “good rocks” image which was a 19×11 image.

Now I am stuck on lesson 19 step 12, my boat copy layer will not drag into the location indicated. I get an error message that says the source and the destination are the same so it will not move.

Can you clear up these two things for me?

Thanks,
Jerry

Jerry Lachat on November 28th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

^#19

Scott; thanks for the mention, and I meant what I said about the title

I do contract work at a graphic design outfit and I have talked them into buying a few copies of the 7-Point System also. It is going to make a big difference in there work flow.

seyDoggy on November 29th, 2007 at 12:11 am

^#20

Scott -

Here is a link to my review:

http://www.imdigitalphoto.com/2007/11/7-point-system-by-scott-kelby.html

Ivan Makarov on November 29th, 2007 at 4:15 am

^#21

Is there an errata for this book? I’m not sure if something changed with the latest CS3 updates, but I’m having problems with the book matching the CS3 program (Win PC version).

Example: Lesson 3, Step 3 (JPG) shows setting the temperature in Camera Raw to +19. However, this is impossible, since Camera Raw 4.3 says validates the field as needing to be between +4 and -4.

In Lesson 2, I had a lot of problems in Camera Raw 4.3 because when I increase the exposure to where the book instructs me to, large parts of the photo becomes saturated with red pixels. Adjusting to the recovery to the values in the book didnt seem to produce a similar result.

Ken on November 29th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

^#22

Follow up - very odd - I exited Photoshop and reloaded the Lesson 3 photo and for some reason, ACR 4.3 now allows me to adjust the temperature outside the range of -4 to +4. I know I’m not going crazy, but it didnt allow it before.

Ken on November 29th, 2007 at 9:11 pm

^#23

This book is at the top of my Christmas wish list!

Thanks to you (and the rest of the photoshop guys) I purchased Lightroom. My question however, is how much of the information in this book will apply strictly to CS3? I’m currently using CS2.

Matt J. on November 29th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

^#24

Scott: I am having trouble finding the “before” examples to download. I am using Safari Books Online to read about the 7-point system. I went to your web site as instructed, but I can not find anything to download.

I suppose that I can use the Mac utility to copy pictures from the web page to pdf, and convert to jpeg. But I may loose some quality that way.

Kelvin

Kelvin Smith on November 30th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

^#25

In my book on page xxi there is a question ‘Q: So where are the photos we can download?’. I used the link given in the book and was able to download without any issues. Check that page.

Ken on December 1st, 2007 at 12:56 am

^#26

Scott

Your 7-point book and examples have really helped me improve my images. Having said that, I grew up in the ’school’ of never deleting any layer so that I could go back and re-adjust parameters. So I cringed every time I flattened the layers to go to the next step. I tried generating a composite layer on the lyer stack - but that did not seem to work all the time.

Is there a way that one can emply your techniques and yet retain all layers?

Thx.

PS As to your introductions… For those readers that do not read this section - it is their great loss. I enjoy your humor and have even got my photographer wife to read your book.

Ron Parker

Ron Parker on December 2nd, 2007 at 3:45 pm

^#27

I am trying to use the flow that is in the book on my own photos. The problem I’m having is that when I try to open a jpeg file in RAW, a dialog box comes up and asks for the photo dimensions. I enter 2272 x 1704, which OSX and CS3 say is correct. When I click OK, I just get a beep. If I put in a smaller size, like 1024 x 768, it says that the size is smaller than the file, do I want to continue. Well no, not really. I want the correct size. I also tried clicking on ‘Guess’ and I just got a beep. What am I doing wrong?

Bob Spage on December 3rd, 2007 at 7:24 pm

^#28

Derr! I found out my problem by re-reading the step 1’s of a few chapters. I did not realize that there was a Photoshop RAW and a Camera RAW option to open files in. I kept trying to open with Photoshop RAW. Sorry for the inconvenience…and great book too!

Bob Spage on December 4th, 2007 at 10:23 am

^#29

I bought 7 points not knowing what to expect but cleared my diary for three full days and conscientiously worked through each of the 20 (21) lessons. I have to say, the repeitition and the structure of the entire book is a real winner. Its taken me from someone who had NEVER looked at PS before to the production of images of this quality.

http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=54365#54365

I totally “get-it” now and have a real process to work through on my own images.

Best money and three days I ever spent

LJ

LJ on December 6th, 2007 at 11:12 am

^#30

Scott and all you posters before me,

As a Lightroom > CS3 user, I am also struggling with Lesson 2 on Smart Objects. I use the workaround to get my image into CS3 as a Smart Object. When I’m done, however, I can’t get the completed image back into LR without importing it as a new image. Anyone know how to do this?

Scott, we love your 7-Point System but really need your help by providing LR-specific instructions where they differ from ACR > CS3.

Karen Wilhelm on December 17th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

^#31

Came up with a (hopefully cool) 7-Point System tool. I scanned the Cheat Sheet page of the book, imported it into Lightroom, brightened up the scan in Develop mode and printed it on 4×6″ photo paper without borders. It is still easy to read and makes a great bookmark for the book.

Scott - maybe you can consider including such a bookmark as a tear-out page in the next version.

Karen Wilhelm on December 17th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

^#32

Add my name to the growing list of LR users having a tough time with the 7 Point System. I think I figured out how to get the photo to open in PS as a Smart Object even though there is no Open Object button in LR as there is in ACR (you should have helped us work around that). What I can’t figure out is how to reopen the copied layer in LR. Double-clicking doesn’t seem to work as it does in ACR. So I’m stuck. I can’t complete any of the lessons that require double-processing a file.

Rod on December 23rd, 2007 at 12:33 am

^#33

Hi Scott

Look forward to seeing your “Seven-Point-System Q&A.” Thanks for acknowledging our comments.

Karen

Karen Wilhelm on January 7th, 2008 at 10:24 am

^#34

A lot of complaints about the use of LR and smart objects in various forums. A usable workaround or a “it just won’t work” from the “boss man” would be appreciated. Maybe he’s just too busy to care about this minor stuff. Too bad, as he seems to be a great guy. I would like to think he is a great guy.

Bob on January 9th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

^#35

I can’t find the link to the sample photos. Can someone help?

Palmy on February 3rd, 2008 at 2:56 am

^#36

Palmy, I can’t remember the exact link, but the link is found near the end of the introduction. I remember having a hard time with that one as well.

One thing that no one seemed to bring up is that the way the 7-point system is presented in the book is pretty destructive. I’ve only gone through the first few chapters, but I see a lot of flattening images, layers, etc. Was wondering why you seem to use a lot of destructive editing in the book, Scott… it keeps file sizes down but surely the flexibility of multiple layers is worth it?

Eric on March 24th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

^#37

Hi Scott
I try hard and I like it!
I have a problem in lesson1/19: when I apply Calculations to the Lab Color the image become B/W and the menue is diferent as yours (I have Source1 and Source2 ….). When I come back to RGB the image is still B/W. Where is my mistake? Can you help me?

Thanks
Paul

Paul on April 16th, 2008 at 4:56 pm