The “Tripod Police” Take Things Up a Notch (You’re not going to believe this one!)
Just when you think the intense fear of tripod’s has gone as far as it can go, this happens: Matt, RC, and I went for an early morning shoot at Grand Central Station yesterday, and each of us carried that most-hated of photographic accessory; the dreaded tripod. We had a special shooting permit to use tripods in the station (more on this later this week), but it was what happened after the shoot that took things to a new level.
After the shoot, we came back to our hotel, the Marriott Marquis in Times Square, to put up our gear so I could head over to B&H Photo for my class at 10:00 am. As we headed into the elevator to go up to our rooms, a uniformed security guard came rushing over and stopped us. He wanted to know where we were going, because after all, we were carrying (wait for it….wait for it) TRIPODS! I shook my head in disbelief and said, “We’re going to our rooms.”
I reached into my pocket to take out my room key to prove we were hotel guests, but I guess we had that really annoyed look that only real hotel guests get when they’re denied access to their rooms, because he said, “Oh, OK” and let us go.
The elevator doors closed, and we’re just standing there looking at each other dumbfounded.
Now, believe me, because this is New York, I understand and respect the need for vigilant security, but was there a tri-pod related terrorist attack that I’m not aware of, that has created this “they’ve got a tripod—they must be up to no good” air that surrounds the city?
Seriously, how have tripods gone from simple stands that hold your camera steady, to terrorist-related devices that raise suspicion and get you stopped by hotel security while simply returning to your room? And we weren’t carrying huge industrial tripods; I had my tiny Gitzo traveler. It’s not as big as an umbrella, yet it draws security like I’m hoisting a grenade launcher.
Is there anything we can do, or is this just the way it’s going to be? Arrrrggghhhh!
I guess I’ve only got these joys to come – I’m looking to buy a tripod in the near future. I’ll be using it when I go hiking, so it needs to be reasonably light, and I’ve not won the Lottery recently, so reasonably priced too!
Does anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks
Rich
Check out this occurence:
http://www.blogto.com/city/2008/02/tripod_prompts_lockdown_at_sheridan_college/
Well clearly Scott, you have that “McGuyver” look to you and so it’s only safe to assume that the security guard thought that you had fashioned a three-barrled grenade launcher out of your Gitzo. Can you fault the guy for that?
Maybe it’s just that there was a super mega star sleeping next to your door and that they were trying to prevent you from paparazziing without letting you know in case you did not know.
Or maybe they thought that it was a sniper rifle tripod and that you were going to shoot down the street from your windows !
Be aware of frustrated photographer !
welcome to America…
… a post 9/11 america were every middle eastern looking person is a terrorist, were every security guard thinks they need to prevent the next presidential assassination and were paranoia rules.
The sad thing is that the only people Americans can blame for it are their stupid leaders who managed to screw any reputation the US might have had abroad.
Get used to it… cause it’s only going to get worse.
Scott it would be really interesting to take this subject up a notch and involve someone (like a public relation official) from the National Security (or related organizations) and have them comment on your post, or maybe even have a complete interview!
We would love to know WHY the camera tripod is suddently related to terrorists.
)
You know, automatic rifles are sold in packs in retail store in the US, yet the tiny tripod is the only one that makes everyone shake (except the camera!).
You gotta love that last sentence!
Alex
Scott,
you obviously haven’t been in New York in a while. Years ago at PhotoExpo, Tamron took people on a trek down the west side of New York from the Javits Center with Don Gale. The group got stopped twice, once by the NYC cops about to arrest everyone for using a tripod without a permit, and then in a small park, which is a state park, with the park police. When the Gates were on display in Central Park, I actually tried to get a teipod permit. You have to specify excatly where you are shooting two to three weeks in advance to even be considered. I said Central Park, and got rejected as it was too vague, and they wanted the exact location. I guess we have to previsualize our concepts. I shot it hand held. It is getting really tough.
PS. Don’t even think of shooting a bridge with a tripod. A friend had a 4 by 5 camera out to shoot the Brooklyn Bridge, and it took several hours of explaining that the “weapon” was actually a camera.
Welcome to New York,
i was walking into a building here in CT with my gear and tripod for a boring corporate headshot, and they looked like they were going to call the FBI after taking a gander at my Gitzo!
Well, being a hotel owner, there is another concern most people don’t realize: a bunch of guys going to a hotel room with gear might mean they’re going to shoot some porn.
Did you have *that* look??
How’s this for a lovely poster to come across in Manchester (UK) when out taking architectural shots:
http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/counter_terrorism/ct_camera_2008.pdf
There are also:
http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/counter_terrorism/ct_door_2008.pdf
http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/counter_terrorism/ct_phone_2008.pdf
Look out for that suspicious house, people!
Whoa.
Let’s be realistic for a second. A tripod DOES look like a weapon. Extended or not; black or chrome – especially if you have it slung over your shoulder. (That being said. those big tubes architects carry blueprints around with look like anti-tank missiles to me. Too much Terminator, I guess.)
Let’s all take a deep breath. You want these guys to NOT do their job? Alrighty, then. Welcome to the U.S. of Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Hi Scott,
I had a similar case in a hotel in the Netherlands, but that was for a different reason. In that hotel it was forbidden to take professional pictures (you had to pay rent for that location (about $ 2000,- )). Perhaps this guy thought the same about your hotel. But never the less, a strange situation.
There is a lot of over reaction in the world since 9-11.
Greetings from Rotterdam, Netherlands.
Which monopod do you recommend for the “scam” method of avoiding this problem?
They may put on the guise that this is a security issue but let’s talk about what it’s really about, MONEY! Just like shooting at the Burj, everyone wants to protect themselves from commercial use of their property’s image without compensation or approval. In a location like NYC, I am sure that most commercial properties have copyrights that cover the use of their building’s likeness. And since we know that only “commercial” photographers would ever dare to use a tripod, you must be out to make a buck from their building. It’s sad but true that great photos of interesting or beautiful architecture can only be taken for a price. I am sure if you were laying $50 on every “guard” that approached you that you could shoot with your tripod from almost any vantage point in the city.
I and my two assistants travelled to Jerusalem in Israel a time ago. At the airport the checked my stuff (Ligths, 8Tripods, and camera gear 4 times. It took us 4 hours from 2 in the morning to 6 in the morning, and even had luck to get our plane. alltough we had of course all permitts.
Taht was also very “funny”.
I have seen fuzzy photos distinctly showing several tripods on the grassy knoll.
I agree with that Jeff that it’s probably a matter of commerce. I am trying to build up a portfolio in architecture and get harrassed by safety-officers once a while. If you ask them why your not allowed to take pictures they never know the reason. If it is because of commercial reasons then i guess they have a load of better jobs to do then harassing innocent photographers. Everybody has a camera in his pocket these days. How long is it gone take before they realise that the are trying to close the dike with there indexfinger?
I take project photos for a civil engineering firm and I have been harrassed numerous times by security even after I produced documentation. I am not bothered usually until I pull out the dreaded TRIPOD!
You could always wear this:
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/photography+terrorist/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.36969676/pNo_36969676/id_9444127/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_
(but maybe this will bring on more problems.)
As long as people of law are uneducated about the laws of Photography; It will continue down this road.
-Dan
http://danfrancisphotography.com/
Try doing night photography or architectural stuff. You get the police called on you.
Scott – one thing you do not want to do in this city (NYC) is use your tripod as a monopod. The shape that the tripod takes when you only lower one leg down is that of either an assualt shotgun or assault rifle, depending on the model of tripod. I’ve been harrased by security and police long before 9/11 when I did this, especially if I forgot to fold that one leg up. Once, I was on an island in Greece and was carrying my tripod, slung over my shoulder with one leg extended, and an old man looked at me and pointed his hand like a gun and made shooting sounds at me. I looked at him and then showed him my camera. He nodded. I then decided the bes thing to do was to keep my tripod in its bag.
Scott,
Sorry to hear that things got a little frustrating for you. Seems you really hit a nerve with your readers. Hope the rest of your visit goes well and you find more to enjoy than regret. It certainly seems times have changed and that we all have some adjustments to make to what was “normal” just a few years ago. I live in Mojave Desert and with the exception of military bases, there are plenty of vistas to be captured with a tripod free from worry.
Blessings,
Doug
Hey Scott,
Firstly i am a long time reader first time poster, that being said when i seen this i was thinking Fluoro. Why do tripods have to be black. make them stand out. so when your walking around (NYC) with them people/ tripod police know what they are
are terrorists going to have a fluoro orange Tripod / weapon my guess is no
Cheers
Kyle from Australia
P.S when you comming to OZ????
Carry it in a olive drab colored canvas bag, maybe that will help…
Sorry folks, but there are generally two reasons: commercial interest, as folks have noted; location security.
Most guards and police are not stupid enough to mistake a tripod for a weapon, as evidenced by the fact that upon demonstration they are still wary or adamant. The connection to terrorism is that security organizations believe people planning attacks will use photographs to help identify locations, vulnerabilities, and ingress and egress routes.
Of course, we all know that terrorists won’t go to the trouble of obtaining a permit. /sarcasm
Guards will not tell you the real reason because that in itself could imply a vulnerability. They themselves don’t know which spots would be of interest or not, so they come down on everyone. A large part of any security plan is to withhold information, and this has worked well over the millennia (no snarky comments – this is a general statement and is true).
When it comes to x-rays and airplanes, the story changes. Many tripods could be used as clubs, and apparently we are all in danger from knitting needles, Bic lighters and 3.1 oz of any given liquid (because 3.0 is safe). I’m quite surprised there is not a bigger marketing push to have “airline safe” clothing and travel accessories… but I guess that may eventually be reduced to paper suits.
Yeah, I’ve been there done that. One more reason to get IS lenses.
One explanation I’ve heard is that security guards have been warned of shady looking people photographing key locations. I wonder, if you are going to be photographing a location with bad intentions, would you be carrying your tripod and gigantic DSLR or just use a camera phone?
Scott
Maybe you should have a “professional photographer, not a terrorist” t-shirt printed?
Deb
Maybe it was the photog’s vest you were wearing with the grenades attached to the pockets.
Looking forward to your PS seminar in Hartford next week.
I’ll be the guy without the tripod.
Scott, do you think maybe the security guard wasn’t sure it was a tripod and wanted to get a better look? Maybe, could be?
He could have just been trying to do his job. Wouldn’t we want him to err on the side of caution?
I’ve was in Law Enforcement for 28 years. You have a split second to decide if you should investigate something. God forbid you don’t investigate and something terrible happen.
Of course you could investigate and it turned out to be innocent, as it usually does. The worst that could happen is some goober writes a blog post.
Typical. I had the police stop me for using a tripod in Grand Central Terminal a few years back. I didn’t have the permit. Stupid rule.
Hey Scott!
Yes this is indeed the way it’s going to be in a post 9/11 world!
Every city, state, country has its own distinct, disjointed and sometimes perplexing approach to security, not to mention hotels, retail stores, office buildings…etc.
NewYork has this slogan “if you see something, say something”.
So no one wants to be the scapegoat and blamed for seeing something and not speaking up about it (should something happen)
I was in fast-food restaurant in France last month and was aggressively accosted by a couple of managers because I had my DSLR hanging around my neck. They told me that pictures were forbidden inside their joint. I had to put my lens cap on and put away my cvamera in its bag.
I guess I looked like some kinda corporate spy or a Dateline reporter!
Meanwhile there were other people around with compact P&S cameras and cellphone who were left alone.
Weird!
Had a similar incident happen to me in Reno, CA. Was at a hotel to shoot a wedding. Got on the elevator with camera strapped around my neck and my tripod in its carrying case strapped to my shoulder. Two old ladies got on the elevator with me, I smiled at them, but before we reached our destination, one them looked at me and asked, “Could you tell me what you have in that bag.” She was pointing to the tripod. I smiled bag, and said it’s a tripod, while also pointing to my clearly visible camera hanging above my waste. I didn’t take it offensively, but just thought about how sad that we live in this type of fear. This is no way to live.
Did this hotel have a view? I was recently in San Francisco and looking for places to take photos and a site had recommended the view from the top of a number of hotels.
With this information, some hotels could become a high tourist attraction for non-guests.
I second the ” “professional photographer, not a terrorist†t-shirt ” idea. Makes a lot of sense these days if you’re trying to shoot in a big city like NY.
HAHAHA, Scott the terrorist!
insane!
Next time wear a red or yellow T-shirt saying ‘Yes we carry tripods!’, ‘Tripod Alert!’ or ‘Yes I am happy to see you’
I had the same experience in an old French Cathedral (now museum) where tripods were not allowed….anyone knows why (dangerous for people to trip?)
Maybe we can paint or tape the tips of our tripod legs in day-glo orange like they do for toy guns so there’s no mistaking the tripod for a “real” weapon!
I’ve only been approached by security once about a tripod, and per the security guard, they were more concerned about patrons tripping over the tripod than anything else.
Does anybody really think that the “no tripod” and “no camera” approach actually does anything for security? Look on Google Earth (aerials and street-view) and Microsoft Live Local! With those resources available world-wide, are terrorists really going to lug around tripods and expensive cameras? Or, are the terrorists going to have p/s cameras and blend in with the tourists?
The next terrorist will likely be wearing a Disney or I Love NY shirt, have a mid-level p/s camera, and each ingredient for a bomb in their pockets.
No, I am not a terrorist.
/Andrew
Maybe I am in the miniority, but was this really that big of a deal?
Even prior to 9/11 many places in NYC had a no tripod policy. In places like Grand Central, could you imagine if anyone could just setup whenever they wanted where ever they wanted — the liability is that someone will trip and fall and cause other types of problems. Same is true for many side walks. Many museums have this rule as well including govt. buildings and courts houses. Some reasons are for security some safety and others are even for the privacy of the guests. I would hate to go into some of the great houses of worship in NYC and have tripods everywhere.
In many cases, its just to prevent a nuasance. Using a different example, I hope we never get to use cell phones while in flight, could you imaging everyone blabbering for the whole flight.
When asking for a permit of a specific location, the reason you are often asked to be very specific, is because so that the local patrol can be informed of where you are going to be.
In many instances, I have been able to get away with taking a photo with a tripod without a permit by approaching the officer and explaining what I wanted to do. Provided he is not the 100% by the book type of person, I usually get, “you got 2min” or “just one snap and move outta here” or “go quick before the sarge comes back” unofficial ok.
At the end, someone is just trying to do their job and photographers do not have unlimited rights to do or go anywhere they please without consideration for their others safety, privacy or security concerns.
While a pain, I usually keep my tripod and monopod in a bag and that simply avoids all issues or curiosity. It adds about 1min to my standup and breakdown but that is as complicated as it gets.
Heaven forbid they see one of us with a tripod AND a Bushhawk shoulder stock :O
Last fall while my wife and I were traveling to Spain, I had borrowed a friend’s $20 tripod for the trip and it made it as carry on luggage with no problems or questions at both O’Hare and Logan airports. We carried on everything as we only were traveling with a few carry on items and backpacks between us.
We made it through the trip without incident until returning home. While passing through airport security in Madrid, the tripod was taken by airport security. My Spanish isn’t up to par, but according to the violent gestures coming from the woman in security, it appeared that the problem was rooted in the tripod’s ability to extend. Had it not been for the language barrier and short time until departure, I would have fought for it.
My advice – if you want to bring a tripod on a flight that you can’t bear to part with, check it in or at least ask at the baggage counter if they anticipate any problems.
Haha, tripods do look like weapons. I remember when I got my first professional tripod for video(manfrotto). A friend and I were joking around about how it actually did look like a big cannon or something.
Actually, no one has mentioned what I think to be the reason.
The tripod I attach to the bottom of my XT looks remarkably like the tripod I attach to my .223 when I’m at the shooting range.
Same basic purpose just different *ahem* target audiences
It is much like this incident that happened to my friend and I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32kIi_SbS8
A small pink box thought to be a bomb.
LOL on Rick Moore’s post….(fuzzy photos of tripods on the grassy knoll) – perfect!
Seriously – it’s not just tripods. Taking pictures can get you arrested but sometimes civilians win.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/23/seattle-police-recei.html
I applaud the security officer for doing his job.
Get over it; it is a small hassle and you missed your elevator but is it really that big of a deal? It’s a small price to pay for this guy trying to do his job….making sure every guest in that hotel is safe. I’m not saying a tripod is the new terrorist tool of choice but who would have ever guessed that a handful of box cutters could take down two 1000 plus foot concrete towers. The security officer saw something different and wanted to make sure you were legitimate guests. I wonder if you are the same type of person that still complains about taking off your shoes at the airport security line.
I love your blog just not this post.
Scott,
A little harsh, he was only pointing out that the little Gitzo is not really up to supporting a D3 and perhaps you would like to borrow his 5540LS.
Ian
You know I had already posted a comment but after reading those paranoid “they just do their jobs” people I just can’t hold myself.
Most of the problem isn’t the tripod. It’s actually the culture. Patriotism here, army here, army there, militia here, terrorism there, protect yourself etc.
We don’t have these problems here in canada. Just look at these facts:
- We can leave our doors unlocked at night (haven’t you seen “Bowling for columbine” by Michael Moore ?).
- We don’t sell automatic rifles/handguns at a regular retail store.
- We don’t have these school/university shootouts every year ( the last one was like 25 years ago).
- We can count on our hand the number of homicides in the last year.
- We don’t have terrorists ramming our skyscrapers with Jets.
- We can shoot with a tripod in town almost anywhere and without a permit (I’ve never been bothered by security, even with police passing by me)
- We don’t sue each other for ridiculous reasons and we don’t make TV ads like “It’s YOUR money! Use it when YOU need it” from JG Wentworth.
…..to name just a few.
I agree this was HOPEFULLY more of a liability issue than a security issue. Since you can hurt yourself by tripping over a tripod and since everyone sues each other, he was probably right to stop you for a checkup.
Alex
Alex Campagna wrote:
“- We can leave our doors unlocked at night (haven’t you seen “Bowling for columbine†by Michael Moore ?).
- We don’t sell automatic rifles/handguns at a regular retail store.
- We don’t have these school/university shootouts every year ( the last one was like 25 years ago).
- We can count on our hand the number of homicides in the last year.
- We don’t have terrorists ramming our skyscrapers with Jets.
- We can shoot with a tripod in town almost anywhere and without a permit (I’ve never been bothered by security, even with police passing by me)
- We don’t sue each other for ridiculous reasons and we don’t make TV ads like “It’s YOUR money! Use it when YOU need it†from JG Wentworth.”
Really? So the shootings at Dawson College in 2006 only occurred in my imagination?
Also, we don’t have “human rights commissions” reminiscent of the Soviet gulags. Just ask Mark Steyn, MacLean’s magazine, and Ezra Levant about said commissions.
You hardly have any reason to be so smug.
In august/september I will be visiting New York and I was hoping to make some long exposure night shots of the city skyline and the Brooklyn Bridge. So I was thinking of bringing a tripod.
Reading this post and searching the internet I am wondering if bringing and using a tripod is even possible or wise? I read something about needing a permit (for some but not all locations)? Do I actually need a permit even if I am an amateur photographer. Is this also needed on the New Jersey side of the Hudson?
Never realized making photographs could be this much hassle. Any tips for me and my trip to NYC?