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Shooting with Permits (and hey…isn’t that Julia Roberts?)

By Scott on Tuesday, May 13th, 2008 at 1:04 am | updates.

juliasm.jpg

There’s a story behind the shot you see above of one of my all-time favorite actresses, Julia Roberts.

Before I left for New York, I had applied for a permit for RC Concepcion and I to shoot with tripods (gasp!) at Grand Central Station. After doing a little digging on the Grand Central Station Website, I found instructions on where to apply for permission to shoot with a tripod (or other professional gear) inside the station (I found this in their FAQ section).

They did want to know what the purpose of our shoot was, and I told them it was for images to be used in my upcoming book which deals with digital photography, and they approved my request. They wanted specific times, dates, etc. but they were very friendly and helpful, and let us shoot right around dawn on Sunday, which I hoped would give us less foot traffic in our shots.

As RC and I are coming down the escalator into the main concourse, I turned to RC and said, “Doesn’t it seem kind of bright down there for 5:45 in the morning?” and when we reached the bottom of the escalator we were surprised to see it lit up like it was 3:00 pm in the afternoon, with literally hundreds of people all standing around the terminal, talking but not moving. We realized in seconds that we had stumbled right into the middle of an on-location movie shoot.

They spotted our camera gear (and tripods) and an Assistant Director was on us in about 30-seconds. I told him we had a permit to shoot the architecture of the building, but with their flood of lighting, and cameras, and equipment we knew our shoot was toast. He was nice enough to let us hang around during rehearsals, and told us they were shooting a movie called “Duplicity” starring Clive Owen. He was totally cool, and told us when the cameras start rolling, just to duck out of site, but he let us take photos the whole time (which we did, for about three hours of taping).

It was really fascinating watching the process, and seeing how the extras were cued in groups, and each extra on the set had a precise path, starting and ending point for the scene. We were there for so long we starting talking with some extras, and one extra pointed out that the woman posing on the walkway right above us was a stand-in for Julia Roberts, and that Julia Roberts herself would be here later for the actual taping.

After a few hours, and some real takes, they started pulling down the lights on one side of the concourse, so RC and I started heading out, but we noticed that the end where we were previously (and where Julia Roberts stand-in was posed), was still lit, and all the extras were still in place. I turned around and started heading back that way, when I noticed the extra had her wig off, and when I looked about 20 feet to her right, I saw what I thought was Julia Roberts.

I told RC and he said, “Dude, shoot her!” so I stopped and cranked off about 30 high-speed shots (at 1600 ISO), and then we walked across the terminal until I was about 20 feet from her. I zoomed in tight with my 200mm f/2.8 VR lens and sure enough—it was Julia Roberts. I cranked off another 20 or so shots at high speed, until a different assistant director came over and told us we couldn’t shoot. We very politely tried to convince him that we had been shooting in there for hours, but he was pretty adamant, so we let it go (after all—I already had the shots, right?).

We stood there and just watched her talking to whomever it was she was talking to (we don’t know if it was another star, an extra, an agent, the director, etc.) but just from watching her facial expressions and mannerisms, she seems very genuine and friendly. Suddenly, she looked over at RC and I and started screaming, “Tripod! Tripod!” and in seconds two guards had tackled RC and I to the ground. I heard the sound of my f/2.8 VR lens crashing against the concrete floor, and as I looked up a police officer was on us with a can of mace, and… (you’re not buying any of this, are you? Because everything from the word, “Suddenly” on was made up. I had ya there for a second though, didn’t I? Aw come on, admit it, I had you for at least a second or two, right?)
Anyway (back to the real story), she seemed really nice, and we headed out because I had to get back to my hotel, grab my gear, and head over to Lou Manna’s workshop, but although we didn’t get to shoot in Grand Central until the following day (they were kind enough to honor our permit the next day, due to the circumstances), but we did have a ball watching the filming, and coming home with some unexpected shots of Julia Roberts. Ya know, in person she was a very Pretty Woman (sorry, I couldn’t help myself).

In other permit news: We applied for, and were granted, a permit to shoot with a tripod and one small light on the streets of New York (Public sidewalks only; no parks—that requires a separate permit from the Parks Dept.). I wanted to shoot Times Square at night, but they wouldn’t approve of that because that weekend there were two movies shooting in different parts of Times Square.

I tried to get a permit to shoot the interior of the Guggenheim museum, and despite having the contact info (found on their site for just such a purpose), and trying to contact them several times, they never responded to our requests. Also, we were turned down to shoot from the observation platform called “Top of the Rock” at 30 Rockefeller Center. They gave their reason as “the photos would be used in a book, and we don’t grant requests for any images to be used commercially in any way.” Hey, it’s their roof, right?

So, to finish up; some quick suggestions on getting permits:

  1. Start early. Don’t wait until the week before your trip; you’ll have a better chance of success
  2. Know exactly when you want to shoot (they’ll want a specific time). Not “on Saturday.” More like; “From 2:30 pm to 3:45 pm”
  3. Know exactly where you want to shoot. They want you to be very specific here as well. Don’t just say “The inside.”
  4. They will want to know exactly why you want to shoot there, and what you’ll do with the photos.
  5. It really helps to have a “Kathy Siler.” Kathy is my executive assistant, the reigning queen of permits and permissions, and is amazing at pulling all sorts of things off like this. Given enough time she could probably “McGiver” me into the situation room at the Pentagon, or “the room with all the big plasmas” out in Langley. She once got me a pass to shoot out at Area 51, and when our handler had to take a call, we ducked into this one room that was supposed to be totally off limits, and as soon as we opened the door, our jaws just dropped…..(OK, I know you’re not falling for this twice, so I’ll get back to the permit stuff).

So, that’s the scoop. Start at the Web site of the facility, city, etc. where you want to shoot; do a little digging around, ask for the PR dept., and be really, really nice. It goes a long way (not just in getting permits, in life in general). Hope this helps a bit.

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  1. #1

    So my first question is what is the permit process to have Kathy Siler help me get permits? :) I love photographing New York, but have yet to plan ahead to get permits. After reading this I’ll be sure not to make that mistake again. I’ve always had great luck with out a tripod but it would be nice to do it right sometime. Great write up. You indeed got me the first time with your embellishment to the story and got a laugh out of me.

    Jim Goldstein on May 13th, 2008 at 2:02 am
  2. #2

    good story!

    guess one of the related/follow-up questions would be: “now that you have your photos, what are your rights in terms of publishing”. shooting with permit on location is one thing, publishing rights (especially if people without written agreements are involved) is a different story. and to make things more complicated, this (of course) varies quite a bit from country to country.

    Stephan on May 13th, 2008 at 2:06 am
  3. #3

    Awesome! I’m glad you shared your experience on getting permits to shoot in public. I would of never thought of obtaining a permit to shoot the busy streets of New York (w/ a tripod). I’ve shot with a tripod a few times in S.F. without any issues. Guess I’ve been lucky, but I won’t leave it to chance if I ever get over to NYC.

    Damien on May 13th, 2008 at 2:07 am
  4. #4

    Julia Roberts sottovoce to companion,
    “Don’t look now but I think it’s - IT IS Scott Kelby and RC behind you!”.

    Ken Owen on May 13th, 2008 at 2:15 am
  5. #5

    Neat little take. You had me for a sec with the made up part LOL.

    The really crazy part here is that things are getting so tight on people with tripods/cameras. It’s nuts

    Gav

    Seim Effects on May 13th, 2008 at 3:31 am
  6. #6

    Good article, made me laugh with those little bits.

    Must have been a fun shoot!

    Chris Ridley on May 13th, 2008 at 4:30 am
  7. #7

    Scott,

    Julia Roberts? Shooting a movie in Grand Central? That was what all the suspense was the past week in your blog? This stuff happens all the time. Its New York! We New Yorkers don’t even think twice about it…

    Now if you want a really cool celebrity story, I got to hang with a real honest to goodness celebrity for three days in the Mountains of Tennessee. This person was really cool and like the most humble person I have ever met, especially considering he is a TV star,… Photoshop TV star that is. Yep, I got to hang with Matt, Rockin’ the Houseski, Kloskowski. Pretty cool, huh! And not like taking pictures of him at 1600 ISO. I actually got to sit at the same table for breakfast one day…

    Okay, sorry to poke fun, it is really cool you got to see a movie being shot, and I would have totally been in awe of Julia too. The stuff about hanging with Matt is totally true. He is really a great guy! You should give him a raise.

    By the way, was Kathy Siler able to get you a model release for that photo of Ms. Roberts. I don’t know if a movie set would be covered as “public” the same way if you got the shot if she were sitting in the park drinking a soy latte. Also, I don’t know if they wouldn’t consider your blog a commercial site and not an editorial site, to which I would say you may want to be careful about displaying that photo… Not a lawyer, didn’t even play one on TV, but I wouldn’t want a bad thing happen to a nice person.

    PS: I was totally serious about Matt being cool. He is a great representative for your company.

    Alessandro Rosa on May 13th, 2008 at 5:44 am
  8. #8

    You spelled MacGyver wrong :). Great story though.

    Chris on May 13th, 2008 at 7:18 am
  9. #9

    Lucky you Scott…you got to shoot the amazing Julia Roberts. So cool!

    Why don’t you post the close up shots you got…I’d really want to see those!

    By the way, great article…really interesting and thanks for sharing the experience.

    There’s something totally new about Photoshop that I uncovered today like few minutes back. I’m a graphic designer and I was given a job to develop a concept for MoneyGram. After the sketches I was doing the first design and for that I needed currencies of different countries.Instead of taking time to shoot the notes(as this isn’t the final one) I just thought of scanning. As soon as i scanned the US Dollar, Photoshop CS3 gave me an alert pop up box saying that Photoshop doesn’t allow copying of banknotes and it said that i could edit or change it but it won’t allow to print. So i even checked to see whether it was really restricting the print and it really did! It’s such an amazing thing. I did scan notes of some other countries as well but that alert note didn’t come up.

    So just thought of sharing the experience with everyone. This is a feature I really didn’t expect in Photoshop.

    Shinaz Saeed on May 13th, 2008 at 7:35 am
  10. #10

    You mean Julia didn’t turn and say “OMG there is Scott Kelby!!!!!” Hehe. Great story and thanks for the tripod issue! My husband calls them expensive tent poles.

    Stacie Morris on May 13th, 2008 at 7:50 am
  11. #11

    Great story Scott. My wife and I once ended up in the middle of the preparations to shoot Batman (in ‘The City’ area of London - always quiet there on a Saturday). Cool stuff - recreating Gotham City. Interesting seeing all the people involved. They let us take photos too. The Stars only arrived later, so didn’t see them.
    I wonder if Julia Roberts has mentioned the experience of seeing you on her blog!

    Mike Coyle on May 13th, 2008 at 8:28 am
  12. #12

    Hi Scott,

    Great read :o) Ok it’s a ‘hands up’ … I admit I sat forward when reading about RC being tackled to the floor etc … you had me .. but only for a second :o)

    This whole permit issue seems quite a headache. Thankfully until now, I’ve not experienced any of these issues shooting in or around London as I regularly do. Naturally you have to use common sense in London where you’re shooting, like most cities I guess, as you’ll likely be approached by security who 9 times out of 10 ask you to move on. To be honest though, it doesn’t seem so much of a problem over here … yet :o)

    Anyway, looking forward to getting a copy of the new book you mentioned …. whatever it covers :o)

    Cheers, Glyn

    Glyn Dewis on May 13th, 2008 at 8:45 am
  13. #13

    Julia Roberts is my all time favorite also. Great shot.

    Tiffaney Watts on May 13th, 2008 at 8:46 am
  14. #14

    I bet Julia is kicking herself for not having jumped at the opportunity of meeting the number #1 selling computer & technology book author for the past seven years. She could’ve gotten your autographe for her three kids, Phinnaeus (what the heck kinda name is that anyway), Hazel & Henry.

    Dave Lloyd on May 13th, 2008 at 8:57 am
  15. #15

    Ok good story…. But I want ot know what this new Digital Photography book you were shooting pictures for is about and when we will see it. Maybe a title or ????

    :)

    Steve Beck on May 13th, 2008 at 9:00 am
  16. #16

    Who is this Julia Roberts person that everyone seems to know?

    Mark on May 13th, 2008 at 9:02 am
  17. #17

    Just kidding of course. ;-)

    Mark on May 13th, 2008 at 9:03 am
  18. #18

    Geez Scott…. my heart really stopped there for a moment when you mentionned your horror story. Fortunately you made it up!

    Glad you had fun and was part of this experience!

    I second Steve Beck about wanting to know when does DP Book Vol 3 comes out !!! I want it now ! :-)

    Alex Campagna on May 13th, 2008 at 9:14 am
  19. #19

    More reasons to stay away from the coasts. Between the Mississippi and California we don’t need no stinking badges (permits.)

    Earl on May 13th, 2008 at 9:16 am
  20. #20

    This seems like even more of a headache than it did from previous blogs. Now if I was shooting something specific near my home, I probably could give a date/time/location… but what about those of us who’ve never been to New York? If I was going there, with a camera at hand, I’d be going as a tourist with NO idea of what/where/when I might want to shoot something with a tripod let alone be able to tell the authorities the same. I guess it’s stabilized lenses and no tripod should I ever get the chance.

    I agree about London though… I spent about three hours on a Sunday night jumping on and off the tube shooting various landmarks, tripod exposed to the world and never needed anything more than a polite nod to the policeman who passed by.

    JasonP on May 13th, 2008 at 9:34 am
  21. #21

    If you can’t get a tripod up to Top of the rock the binoculars up there will work fine as a stand for the camera. I shot this picture that way: http://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_madsen/2332429818/sizes/o/ and this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/roger_madsen/2331602667/sizes/o/

    Thanks for the tips on getting permits, I will deffinitely do that the next time I visit NY!

    Roger Madsen on May 13th, 2008 at 9:44 am
  22. #22

    Ok, there always has to be one obsessive gearhead in the group, right? So, was the ISO 1600 shot taken with your D3 or D300?

    (and yes, Julia is very hot!)

    Spencer Hoyle on May 13th, 2008 at 9:45 am
  23. #23

    the top of the Rock is a great place to shoot.
    Its a shame they don’t allow tripods.
    They do allow cameras and even have a special sunrise / sunset ticket.

    Good anti-vibration technology and a brush up from Joe McNally on how to hold a camera really steady makes for some great shots of New York.

    I just wish I had been able to go back at sunset, but work got in the way.

    Alan Hess on May 13th, 2008 at 10:59 am
  24. #24

    you really did have me going with the whole “wrestled to the ground” thing, I can just picture it.

    Nathan Terry on May 13th, 2008 at 11:02 am
  25. #25

    How fun for you guys! And, yes, you got me for just a second.

    Did you see the Photoshop reference in the Blondie cartoon today? Thought you might enjoy it.

    T. on May 13th, 2008 at 11:29 am
  26. #26

    Great story Scott,

    Similar to yourself, I stumbled upon the filming of “Sex in the City” near Rockefeller Center while in New York last September. I got lots of great shots of the cast and Sarah Jessica Parker also seemed a very happy and genuinely good person.

    Regarding the use of a tripod on Top of the Rock, I was able to get shots in at dusk using a small sturdy table top tripod. I picked it up at B and H while in NY and just set it on top of one of the ledges on the roof. The tripod is so small it almost goes unnoticed and it does a great job of providing steady support of my Nikon with small to medium size lenses. I keep the mini tripod with me all the time now.

    Cliff Workman on May 13th, 2008 at 11:55 am
  27. #27

    Hello Scott,

    I bet I got a “better” made up story than you,

    Global Warming, Rays Ring Light
    http://kblawson.wordpress.com/

    I tell a good yarn…

    Ken in KY

    Ken on May 13th, 2008 at 11:55 am
  28. #28

    Papparazzi!

    Wayne on May 13th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
  29. #29

    I read it, and even -I- believed it for a second..

    Then I was like, “wait a minute.. thats me down there!”

    Goes to show you…. I get maced all the time. :)

    RC

    RC on May 13th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
  30. #30

    Obviously those who believed that “wrestled to the ground” part haven’t read any of your book or chapter introductions.

    See, that is why Scott always tells you to read the introductions of his books!

    Alessandro Rosa on May 13th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
  31. #31

    Dag, I’m so gullible–I have many of Scott’s books, and I still fell hard and believed it was true! I enjoyed reading your story!

    Kenny
    (Virginia)

    Kenny Bullock on May 13th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
  32. #32

    You had me horrified for a moment. I saw your camera (and the VR lens!) moving in slow motion towards the ground… colliding… NO oh oh… crash!

    Whew!

    ManWithCamera on May 13th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
  33. #33

    Nice story Scott, and tomorrow´s Wednesday and no news or stories from you, - can´t wait until Thursday!

    B Forsberg on May 13th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
  34. #34

    It can pay off to carry your camera everywhere. I was walking home from work in DC with my camera bag on my shoulder and walked into Nicolas Cage and John Voight filming. It was a trip:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tzakiel/557289504/

    Jon Van Dalen on May 13th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
  35. #35

    It seems to be easier setting up a rocket launcher than a tripod these days. Amazing. Great recounter of your trials and tribulation and, yes, you had me for a second.

    Marianne on May 13th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
  36. #36

    Do we need permission to shoot on the streets of New York just using a DSLR (no tripod)? I plan to go to New York for a holiday and I do plan to do a bit of shooting around New York.

    Mark on May 13th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
  37. #37

    Scott is legal to use the picture of Julia since it is “photojournalism” in it’s nature and there is an article that goes along with the photo. It’s not being used for a commercial ad or something invading her privacy. This is a free public website as well.
    There is a good book on this subject called “Starting Your Carrer as a Freelance Photographer” by Tad Crawford. It’s chock full info. It didn’t turn me into a lawyer, but I can shoot with confidence knowing what the federal laws are regarding what you can and cannot do with certain photos.
    This would be a great subject to do an article on Scott! Cheers, -Matt

    Matt Timmons on May 14th, 2008 at 3:12 am
  38. #38

    Nice Story. I find it very ironic that cities are so worried about tripods but they let movies be taped all over the city.

    William Snyder on May 14th, 2008 at 9:18 am
  39. #39

    movies can be filmed all over the city because they have permits :)

    Jeff Tamagini on May 14th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
  40. #40

    YOU DO NOT NEED A PERMIT TO PHOTOGRAPH ON A TRIPOD IN NYC!!!

    Read the following article from the NYT:

    City May Seek Permit and Insurance for Many Kinds of Public Photography

    By RAY RIVERA
    Some tourists, amateur photographers, even would-be filmmakers hoping to make it big on YouTube could soon be forced to obtain a city permit and $1 million in liability insurance before taking pictures or filming on city property, including sidewalks.

    New rules being considered by the Mayor’s Office of Film, Theater and Broadcasting would require any group of two or more people who want to use a camera in a single public location for more than a half hour to get a city permit and insurance.

    The same requirements would apply to any group of five or more people who plan to use a tripod in a public location for more than 10 minutes, including the time it takes to set up the equipment.

    Julianne Cho, assistant commissioner of the film office, said the rules were not intended to apply to families on vacation or amateur filmmakers or photographers.

    Nevertheless, the New York Civil Liberties Union says the proposed rules, as strictly interpreted, could have that effect. The group also warns that the rules set the stage for selective and perhaps discriminatory enforcement by police.

    “These rules will apply to a huge range of casual photography and filming, including tourists taking snapshots and people making short videos for YouTube,” said Christopher Dunn, the group’s associate legal director.

    Mr. Dunn suggested that the city deliberately kept the language vague, and that as a result police would have broad discretion in enforcing the rules. In a letter sent to the film office this week, Mr. Dunn said the proposed rules would potentially apply to tourists in places like Times Square, Rockefeller Center or ground zero, “where people routinely congregate for more than half an hour and photograph or film.”

    The rule could also apply to people waiting in line to enter the Empire State Building or other tourist attractions.

    The rules define a “single site” as any area within 100 feet of where filming begins. Under the rules, the two or more people would not actually have to be filming, but could simply be holding an ordinary camera and talking to each other.

    The rules are intended to set standards for professional filmmakers and photographers, said Ms. Cho, assistant commissioner of the film office, but the language of the draft makes no such distinction.

    “While the permitting scheme does not distinguish between commercial and other types of filming, we anticipate that these rules will have minimal, if any, impact on tourists and recreational photographers, including those that use tripods,” Ms. Cho said in an e-mail response to questions.

    Mr. Dunn said that the civil liberties union asked repeatedly for such a distinction in negotiations on the rules but that city officials refused, ostensibly to avoid creating loopholes that could be exploited by professional filmmakers and photographers.

    City officials would not confirm that yesterday. But Mark W. Muschenheim, a lawyer with the city’s law department, which helped draft the rules, said, “There are few instances, if any, where the casual tourist would be affected.”

    The film office held a public hearing on the proposed rules yesterday, but no one attended. The only written comments the department received were from the civil liberties group, Ms. Cho said.

    Ms. Cho said the office expected to publish a final version of the rules at the end of July. They would go into effect a month later.

    The permits would be free and applications could be obtained online, Ms. Cho said. The draft rules say the office could take up to 30 days to issue a permit, but Ms. Cho said she expected that most would be issued within 24 hours.

    Mr. Dunn says that in addition to the rules being overreaching, they would also create enforcement problems.

    “Your everyday person out there with a camcorder is never going to know about the rules,” Mr. Dunn said. “It completely opens the door to discriminatory enforcement of the permit requirements, and that is of enormous concern to us because the people who are going to get pointed out are the people who have dark skin or who are shooting in certain locations.”

    The rules were promulgated as a result of just such a case, Mr. Dunn said.

    In May 2005, Rakesh Sharma, an Indian documentary filmmaker, was using a hand-held video camera in Midtown Manhattan when he was detained for several hours and questioned by police.

    During his detention, Mr. Sharma was told he was required to have a permit to film on city property. According to a lawsuit, Mr. Sharma sought information about how permits were granted and who was required to have one but found there were no written guidelines. Nonetheless, the film office told him he was required to have a permit, but when he applied, the office refused to grant him one and would not give him a written explanation of its refusal.

    As part of a settlement reached in April, the film office agreed to establish written rules for issuing permits. Mr. Sharma could not be reached for comment yesterday.

    Mr. Dunn said most of the new rules were reasonable. Notably, someone using a hand-held video camera, as Mr. Sharma was doing, would no longer have to get a permit.

    RStokes on May 14th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
  41. Bobbi on May 14th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
  42. #42

    In response to Mark Timmons:

    I think the question is more about the presumption of privacy. From the looks of the photo, Scott is shooting up from the main concourse of the terminal towards the balcony to the right of the escalators as you face them. This section is connected to Michael Jordan’s Steakhouse and is usually used for private functions, photo shoots (CBS used it as a location for a 60 Minutes piece), and a staging area for things like movie shoots. The side that faces the escalator is usually draped off for privacy from the public. If this was in fact where Julia Roberts was, it could be argued that she could have presumed she was in a private location making it the equivalent of shooting through the window of her dressing room, which even if done from a public location can be problematic, as I believe that if a subject has the presumption of being in a private location, a model release is required to use the photo.

    I agree, this would probably be an interesting article for Layers or Photoshop User Magazine

    Alessandro Rosa on May 15th, 2008 at 6:39 am
  43. #43

    Parts of the fourth Star Trek movie were filmed on the aircraft carrier USS Ranger while I was a crew member. The ship was in port at Naval Air Station North Island in San Diego at the time. The Paramount team was there for about four days filming, and I actually watched the main hanger deck foot chase scene from the catwalk on the flight deck. They let us take pictures but we couldn’t use flash.

    The actual foot chase filming was done with the cameraman in a wheelchair, being pushed backwards while the security team was running. I’m amazed that they didn’t hit a padeye and dump the chair!

    David M. Converse on May 22nd, 2008 at 5:22 pm

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