Catch My Exclusive Interview with Attorney Ed Greenberg for the Straight Scoop on Copyright, Model Releases, and Shooting in Public
If you’ve been reading this blog for the past month or so, you’ve read my posts about photographers being harassed when shooting in public, and a lot of readers have chimed in with comments about what we can and can’t shoot, what our rights as photographers are and aren’t, our interpretations of copyright law, and so on. There’s just one problem; we’re not attorneys.
So, I contacted New York-based Intellectual Property Attorney Ed Greenberg, who’s a published author on the topic, and who has been dealing with photography copyright, contract, and creative rights issues for over 30 years, to finally get the straight no-nonsense scoop on all this.
Ed is absolutely brilliant; he communicates in Plain English (and with a great sense of humor as well), and he cuts through the bull and gets right to the point (which is why we now have Ed, and photography rights advocate Jack Reznicki, co-host a legal session for photographers at Photoshop World).
I had Ed as a call-in guest for next week’s episode of Photoshop User TV where I asked Ed to debunk some of the most widely held myths of copyright, model releases and shooting in public (the same topics we’ve been discussing here on the blog). Below are two video clips of the interview from next week’s show, approximately 10-minutes each, which represent some of the best, and most important information we’ve ever delivered in the history of the program.
The two clips, Part I and Part II, will air on next Monday’s show, but I wanted to run the interview here now, because I think you’ll find it as eye-opening, surprising, revealing, and as incredibly valuable as I did. This interview can change the way you work and protect your images in a very profound way, and that’s why I wanted to run it today, and during this entire fourth of July weekend, so you’d have a chance to really give it your undivided attention.
My thanks to Ed for being so gracious as to share his time and expertise with my readers here on the blog. I really hope you find this helpful. Also, thanks to my buddy Terry White, who came up with the idea to go straight to the source and really get to the heart of this matter.
Click the videos below (start with the top video Part I), to watch each interview.
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PART ONE:
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PART TWO:
Again, my humble thanks to Ed for his time and insights, and if you’re going to Photoshop World Las Vegas this September, make sure you catch his and Jack’s full hour-long, eye-opening class.
Super neat. Watching the vid now.
I’m glad your talking more about this issue. There’s a often confusion and our rights, and it’s great to have it clarified.
Gavin Seim
Hi Scott,
I am a Photographer in Ft Lauderdale - Miami - Florida ( http://www.paulopics.com ) and I alway wanted to understand the topic of model release and permition to shoot better. Thanks for the Videos Part 1 and Part 2.
Great Job!!!
Paulo Jordao
Which plugin do you use for the picture at the top of your blog?
Thanks
I just finished them both and just had to comment again.
KILLER job with this. Simple and straight. Props to you guys for getting this done, and thanks to Ed for giving us the info. I plan to mention this on the next PPS so my listeners can watch it.
Only thing I’m wondering about is is I can take something to small claims court
lol
Gavin Seim
Pro Photo Show
Thanks for this info / insight Scott. Your blog is always so informative.
This is great!
Thats some good info. Now we just some info for all countries in the world
Btw a little hint when you are uploading videos.
http://www.blip.tv
Its a great free side with high quality and a good system. Try it out
Fantastic!
Thank you for once again setting the record straight.
Now that you opened pandora’s box, how about a segment on
copyright registration?
Can’t hurt to ask!
Tomgo
If you do another interview with Ed, I’d be interested to hear him discuss tripods and monopods.
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT EXCELLENT
thanks Scott - that was very eye opening.
If it’s not too much of a pain, could you post a transcript somewhere? I’m hearing impaired, and although I was able to catch some of the video, I couldn’t lipread it all. Or point me to some sources that explains some of this in detail - it’s been a long time since I’ve read up on the rules & laws regarding photographing in public, and I want to brush up since I’m diving back into that world.
(oh and! Thanks!)
Great interview and answers to a lot of questions. Now I just have to figure out all the logistics of actually getting a copyright registration. How does the all apply to photo sharing sites like Flickr or Smugmug when it comes to uploading “street” photography for others to see. Thanks as always
I am wondering how the registration applies to photos taken outside the US and published and infringed from the web? Does this mean that Aussies need to register in the US to get protection? It seems that most infringements will include the web and therefore involve not just US based copyright law?
(oh and thanks for this!)
Very, very, very, very valuable. Wondering if it applies to magazines which print the copyright logo but never register individual copies. But that’s another story and another Web site. Unless, of course, I publish an online photo book with text.
Best post ever! Dude! You should do this all the time. I absolutely loved it and got a lot out of it. PERFECT! Do it again, Do it again.
Wow. Great video, Scott. It’s always good to get this kind of information straight from the source. As Mike Zupan mentioned, I would like to hear what Ed has to say about tripods and monopods.
I had always thought that you had to physically print every image to send it to the copyright office. I spoke to them last week and found that this is not the case. Submitting them all on CD in JPEG format is all that is required. Each “collection” costs $45 to register and you can have as many images in a “collection” that you want. So, every ‘good’ image I’ve taken over the last 8 years is on its way to the US Copyright Office right now to be filed.
I think that photographers just don’t realize how simple it really is. I’ll be making a blog post on my blog very soon that outlines the exact steps to file Copyright.
Thank you for making this available right away! I learned a lot and I am going to be filling CDs this weekend to send off to the copyright office.
Hey Scott. I have a question…
Do you know if I take a bride or a model to some beach for their Engagement session or Photo session (something about 1 hour) if would need to get some city permit? or any other kind of permit?
Thanks
Paulo Jordao
Paulo,
I’m not Scott, but as Ed had mentioned repeatedly in the video: laws vary state by state, and in your case, even city by city. It would certainly depend on what type of beach (public, private). As you may know, parks in some cities let people pay to register an event there so that they have exclusive rights to it, the beach situation in your area may be similar.
I would advise you to contact the city public works department (it’s called something like that, I do believe) and ask them – they should be able to answer you straight away and more definitively than anyone here can, not knowing your location and all.
Enjoy and have fun shooting,
Michael
Scott,
I have read many of your books and am a NAPP member, and I know one thing that you say is to just show your best work. I have always wondered though if YOU just take snapshots once in a while? and when is it ok to do so. I always try to frame up and get the best possible shot no matter what I am taking but sometimes people jsut ask me to take a quick shot that to me is just ok but to them it is satisfactory. Is it really worth taking the time to make your pictures look great when the people getting the picture really don’t care?
Anyways, Thank you so much for your teachings and your openness in faith, you are a great role model.
John Beyer
Scott -
Thank you for posting these fantastic videos. I actually thought it was all common sense and didn’t hear anything I didn’t expect to hear - Except - The law pertaining to fine art prints and people you shot. That was my biggest question and I would have blown that had been a quiz. In fact, I am quite surprised that a photographer can even run off a limited series without penalty. Very interesting. Intellectual Property cases can be very complex as there are often so many variables and circumstances. A large (and very helpful) firm in Boston (fr.com) has been hugely helpful in my education - good, super sharp people.
Anyway, my idealistic thoughts; First, remember you’re an artist and approach people with that mindset. Then, why not carry some basic consent form with you in a camera bag and if you do shoot an interesting individual - kindly ask them if they would not mind you using their image in a piece of art you’re crafting - and signing the form. It doesn’t need to be drafted by a lawyer as long as it covers basics. Then if ever there is some odd legal action in the future, you will have a big advantage. I personally have found people to be flattered, agreeable and generous. Particularly if you take personal info and send them a “thank you” print of what you created with their likeness.
Just my tiny bit of experience.
Scott, thanks again for all your work! I don’t know how you do it - you must be a twin!
Doug
Scott,
Great post. You have some of the best resources to get information out to your blog readers. It’s amazing. I’d love to see your online Rolodex sometime. I’ve been tinkering in photography for about 30-years but with the advent of Digital Photography I tinker even more now and two subjects of interest to me right now are “The Legal Aspects of Photography” and “The Business of Photography”. I don’t think I could ever learn too much about either to tell you the truth. Once again you’ve come through for us. You da man.
Dennis
Great interview. I have been hassled several times myself because of my style of photography and it’s good to know what some of the real answers are.
CAMERA WARS!!, I carry a d300 with a 24-70 lens in a small black bag with a few acc’s. This AM I was stopped at the entrance of my neighborhood Kr-g-r Grocery Store and told I would have to check my bag at the Cus Ser desk b4 I could go in. I told the security guard what I had in my bag, Aprox $4000. worth of Camera Equip and he told me I could not got into the store with my bag. Yet several women passed into the store with much larger Purses than my camera Bag. I,ve never encountered this problem going into any retail estab before, is this a new trend, I went into several other stores at this shopping center w/o this Problem. Needless to say they will not get any more business from me or my friends.
I’d be interested in knowing the restrictions around of my own images of other artist’s work…for example Christo’s Gates in NYC or contemporary one of a kind works in the public museums? Do these fall into the same limited edition category as the Scott’s person on the street example or are they purely for my scrape book?
This answered all of my questions that I’ve had in the past regarding IPRs. Thanks for posting it, Scott!
John
Hi… I’m not sure if anyone knows the answer to this but I’m a newbie and was curious if the images sent to the Copyright Office had to be the source image or the final image after you’ve optimized it?
Hey Scott,
Finally watched the video. Excellent source of information.
Thanks a bunch,
Mike
That has to be the most worthwhile 20 minutes I have ever spent online. Thank you.
Really useful and interesting. A lot of information.
Thanks.
Thank you for sharing the videos. I had watched them.. They are really good.
As I tried to view the 2 videos fron Ed Grennberg, I find that they are no longer available. What gives?
Are they available anywhere?
Thanks,
Richard Huot
jprhconsultant@videotron.ca
Scott,
I think Greenberg was mistaken about the “90-day window” starting at the date of infringement…the statute clearly states the 90-day countdown starts with the date of publication. Carolyn Wright at http://www.photoattorney.com was nice enough to straighten out this issue for me.
Basically, I came away from Greenberg’s interview (which I loved - he’s fun to listen to) assuming I didn’t need to register anything until someone used it without my permission. But that’s not quite the case, which I’ll bet he’d admit. Just thought I’d let all the fine folks that read your site know, in case they made the same mistake I did.
check this one out she go 12 million!…..http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=803428
I’ve done research on the subject for about 5-6 years, and have written the only book on model releases on the market (with the exception of books that “only” have sample release forms).
The main problem that photographers have is that they think they only need to know the law. That’s important, but the reality is that, except for the very simple black-and-white cases, most situations are vague, and are often disputed about what the “legal” aspects are, or how they will settle out.
Photographers don’t really benefit from knowing the law without appropriate and representative business contexts to frame both real and hypothetical questions. As such, when photographers listen to lawyers, all they learn are specific details to academic legal questions, but lose the more realistic pragmatic frameworks of everyday life.
This is where my book comes in, which can also be read in an abridged form on my website: http://www.danheller.com/model-release and related links from there that cover copyrights and trademarks.
dan
So how does the intellectual property laws apply to wedding photography and “guests” of the wedding. The guests did not sign the contract, but images are used on Web sites and blogs for self promotion. Are these images subject to the same criteria as shooting a person on the street?
As an addendum, it would be very beneficial to publish the interview in print here also. Unfortunately for some, due to location limitations, dialup is an only option. Those without high speed connections dont always have the time or advantage of being able to devote sometimes hours to gain the necessary information.
Wonderful interviews and a great service to photographers, thanks for these videos. Though I felt familiar with much of what Mr. Greenberg had to say it’s great to hear the message repeated from such a respected authority.
Thanks so much for these videos. Very clear and quite helpful! I’ve read up so much on this subject(and sometimes asked other photographers, lol!), but always end up getting confused when it comes to published vs unpublished part. The answer I’ve gotten ranges from anything that’s been publicly posted is published(which would include flickr, blogs, etc), to if you’ve submitted them for sales (such as to a stock agency or a magazine) then they are published. So to be safe I should consider it all published if it’s ever been publicly visible?
How do people include this in their workflow? Do you submit to the copyright office every time you click the shutter? Or use the 90 day rule and submit everything you published in the last 90 days? Or only submit every so often, but refrain from publishing(such as to your blog) until you’ve submitted for copyright?
I absolutely loved your 7 Point System - it totally changed the way I did editing(I didn’t even know where to start before). Now I need a 7 point system for registering copyright!
Just kidding, but it would be very interesting to know how you include this in your workflow.
Thanks again for a great blog, I always look forward to reading it.
Sad, on this date 8/3 the videos are not available. Will they return in the future ?
PD
Well I clicked again and they played. Very good information.
Thank You
PicsDallas
Dear Zak: You misunderstood my mantra. Register all of your work on an on going basis all of the time. Don’t wait for anything other than the image to materialize digitally or if film, when it is processed. Do not wait to register until infringement(s). Do not wait for anything except the completion of the picture taking process PERIOD. All of your work is to be registered. Do not pick and choose. You never know when an image may become valuable. due to the transformation of time or events.
Dear Dan: Advice such as yours drives more paying customers to attorneys’ offices than you can imagine. I have read and disagree with almost everything you have written on the subject. I am unaware of any legal expertise nor what other expertise you bring to the discussion. Photographers are no more qualified to give legal advice than attorneys are to suggest f stops. Finally, I have yet to read the comments or opinions of any other attorney or law professor who concurs with the unsupported legal opinions and advice you offer in your book or blog. 50% of the lecture Jack and I will be giving in Las Vegas for Photoshop on the subject of model releases is dedicated to correcting myths and the process of separating the “Bull from the Beef” when it comes to releases.