It’s “Guest Blog Wednesday” featuring Scott Kelby

I know—I’m not a guest. But I looked at my calendar yesterday afternoon to see who I had scheduled as my guest for “Special Guest Blog Wednesday” and it was completely blank. I’m really not that surprised, because as my wife will attest; I have the memory retention of a hamster, and I guess I just completely forgot to get line up a guest blogger for today. So, you’re stuck with me today as your guest blogger, but next week I’ll have an actual special guest, so at least it won’t happen two weeks in a row.
An Odd Admission From A Book Author
This may sound kind of weird coming from a guy who makes his living writing books, but I don’t think there’s any method of learning that compares with being a part of a live seminar or workshop. As good as a book or a video is, it’s a one-way experience; there’s no interaction with the instructor; no opportunity to get that one question answered that’s been driving you crazy, and as passionate as an author might be, you just don’t get that excitement—that buzz—that energy you get from a great live seminar or workshop.
That’s why I love teaching workshops so much, and it’s also exactly why each year I try to attend as many of other people’s workshops as I can, as a student (I’ve recently taken workshops on everything from shooting food, to shooting home interiors).
I think for a teacher like me, it’s particularly important to learn new things, new techniques, and new ways of looking at things, so you don’t get in a rut—you need to feed that side of you that made you want to be a teacher in the first place, and for me, learning new stuff just feeds my passion (well, that and buying new camera gear, but that’s a whole different problem. Or story. Depending on how you look at it).
The Art of Being a Good Student
Now, up to this point, I’ve been talking as “Scott the instructor” or “Scott the Photoshop Insider Guy,” but what I really want to talk to you about today is something I’ve learned as “Scott the student,” so from this point on, I’m giving you my perspective as just another student in the workshop, so please keep that in mind from this point out (but I’ll check in again as regular Scott toward the end of this article). I want to talk about ‘Being a Good Student,’ and making the most from the live learning experiences you’ll come across.
There’s One in Every Crowd
When I go to a workshop; I’m there for one reason—to learn from an absolute expert on a topic. But in a couple of the workshops I’ve attended lately, one of the students literally “Hijacked” the class, which had a really negative effect on:
- The other students
- The instructor
- The “bad student” himself
I’ll give you an example of how one student somewhat hijacked a recent class I was in. It was Architectual/Interiors shooting workshop Matt and I attended out in California. The instructor would tell the class, “Here’s how I would set-up and compose a shot of a room like this,” and as soon as those words were out of his mouth, “Bad Student,” would step in and say, “Well, that’s not the way I would shoot it, and he would proceed to show the instructor how “He” does it (which, of course, is exactly the opposite of what the instructor just showed us). The problem is; he’s not just showing the instructor off to the side. He’s now showing the entire class. He’s directing his comments to the instructor, but we’re all now standing there watching another student showing the instructor his methods, during our class time.
Now, this guy might be a phenomenal interior photographer. In fact, he might even be much better than the instructor (we, as a class have no way of knowing; we all just met 30 minutes earlier). Or, he might be a total hack. We just don’t know. But we do know this; we paid to hear the techniques from the instructor—not this student—but there we are—all standing around listening to the student.
Now the instructor has to spend time justifying to the “Bad student” why he uses the technique he originally demonstrated (while we all stand around), and then he continues his lesson to us. About two minutes later, after showing how he sets up a flash, the “Bad Student’ interupts and asks the instructor, “Well, wouldn’t this technique also work?” and he proceeds to move the flash over to a different location and he shows how he’d light the room. The instructor is frustrated. The students are frustrated. This guy is “hi-jacking the class.”
The instructor once again has to show why he uses the technique he does, and then we finally move to another room. The instructor starts his lesson, and the Bad Student kicks in again. Thankfully, another student who’s already got steam coming out of her ears, finally steps in and says directly to the Bad Student, “Your technique might work, but I paid good money to learn how to do this stuff from him [she points to the instructor]—not you.” All the other students chime in immediately with a “Yeah, we paid to hear from him!” and he backed off for about 10-minutes, and then he was right back at it.
Now, you might be thinking, “It’s the instructor’s fault; he shouldn’t have let things get out of hand!” I can tell you from personal experience, it’s very tricky dealing with a hi-jacker, especially in a small group like we were. I thought the instructor did a good job of trying to give this guy a visual que (through his facial expressions), that he was holding up the class, and by trying to cut his interruptions short as possible without being rude, but with this guy, it wasn’t easy. Even a sharp, direct comment from another student didn’t slow him down.
This same thing happened to me when I was a student in another workshop earlier this year, and while I won’t go into the whole story here, the woman wanted to let the class know she was a big time pro—more of a peer of the instructor than a student (however, this could not be further from the truth, as was evidenced by a display of her work before the class started). Sadly, she proceeded to hi-jack the class big time between challenging the instructor’s techinques, and monopolizing his time.
Here’s the thing; both ‘bad students’ paid to attend these workshops. I would like to believe that they signed up because they wanted to learn about the topic from the instructor they paid to learn it from (that’s why I signed up), but then they get to the class, and they spend the day trying to become the focus of the entire class. I just don’t get it.
Thankfully, this didn’t happen in the class I took last weekend from Mary DuPrie, but there’s generally “One in every class.” Don’t be that “One.” If you pay to go to a workshop to learn something new, shut up and learn. There are other students in that class who paid, too—and they paid to learn from that instructor—not one of the students. Be a good student; stand back and just take it all in. That’s why you’re there.
Outsmarting The Class
Here’s a tip for getting the most of on-location photo workshops. I’ve been a student at many of these, and I’ll use the “Digital Landscape Workshop Series” workshops as an example. We’ll get up at the crack of dawn, drive out to our shooting location, and then Moose Peterson (world famous photographer and head of DLWS), gives us some tips for shooting that location, and then we set-up for our shoot. So far, so good. But there’s “Always One” student who thinks they’re going to “outsmart the class and the instructors” and they break away from the group—away from the instructors, and go off by themselves to get that “one shot nobody else will get.”
This is another form of “bad student.” Here you have the incredible Moose Peterson, and co-instructors Joe McNally (Yes, that Joe McNally) and amazing landscape photographer and total gear-head Laurie Excell (who runs NAPP’s own photo gear desk) right there—at your disposal. They’re there, on location, to teach you how to shoot landscapes. They’ll show you composition ideas; talk about which lenses you might use, where to set-up, what to capture, and basically share one-on-one knowledge you can’t get any other way. What an incredible opportunity for the class. Except for the One student who headed off by themselves so they could “get that one shot nobody else got.”
So, what did this student learn from their morning with Moose, Joe, and Laurie? Not a darn thing. If you’re going to wander off, totally ignore the instructors, and do you own thing; why pay for the workshop in the first place? Just fly to a nice location, wander around by yourself, and save the money. The reason people go to these workshops is not just to shoot in beautiful places—-you can do that on your own—it’s to learn from world class instructors. Be a good student, and not only will you come home a better photographer, you’ll have invested your workshop money wisely.
Why I care
There are two reasons:
- I’m a student, too. And just like you, I really want to absorb as much as that instructor has to share. I spent my time and money to attend the workshop, and I really want to hear what that instructor has to share.
- I’m an instructor, too. When I do a workshop, I really genuinely want it to be a fantastic learning experience for my students, who spent their hard-earned money for their travel, their time, and for their workshop registration fee.
I take my workshops very seriously, and I have everything planned out, and a written outline for every hour, of every day, of the entire workshop (even if it’s a full week long). Sadly, I’ve had students hi-jack my own workshops, and in those cases; nobody wins. Not the students, not the bad student, and certainly not me, because it takes my class outline and tosses it in the trash. It derails my plan for the class, it totally makes me lose my focus, and it hurts the entire workshop for everybody.
The Moral of the Story
Be a good student. Go without any expectations. Go without any preconceived notions about what you should or shouldn’t learn, and just allow yourself to soak it all in. Respect your fellow classmates and the instructor’s time. Ask questions when its appropriate, but make sure you remember it’s not a private workshop, and leave time for others to have their questions answered.
Workshops and seminars are really what you make of them. If you go in with an open mind, it will come out full. If you go in already knowing everything, there’s not much room for anything new to find its way in. Go in with the idea that you’re going to learn a ton, and you’ll get double your money’s worth, you’ll make new friends, and you’ll be a better, more-informed, well-rounded person for sharing in the experience.



















Scott- I thought there was two of you…
This is a great post. The ‘bad students’ aren’t limited to photography workshops – it applies to ANY workshop, training, etc.
And the comments are great, too. Particularly the one about turning off the cell phone!
Scott, I apologize for taking up all of the class time during the interiors workshop and the food workshop.
I can’t help myself. It’s a sickness!
…oh wait, that wasn’t me.
Scott,
I officially volunteer to immediately go up to the bad students and tell them to shut up within 0.5 seconds of them speaking.
All it requires is free access to all the classes you teach and attend.
In all seriousness, great post.
-Frank
Make an announcement at the start of your next workshop that if anyone hijacks the seminar, beatings with tripods will insue.
Hi Scott
I agree “bad students†are a major disruption in the class. Scott, we met at the DLWS Cape Cod workshop. I’m the one who met my wife at one of your Photoshop seminars. One of the “bad students” happened to be a local taking the workshop. Locals just know always the best spots. Oh boy.
In response to an earlier comment:
As far as Moose, he is a great instructor. He always explained that this is what works for him to solve the particular problem. He NEVER stood there and said this is the only way to get great pictures. He always told the students they have to find what works for them.
Yes, he talks about Nikon a lot…he’s a Nikon professional, the workshop is sponsored by Nikon and Nikon is what he knows. Did I mention Nikon. He is passionate about the equipment he uses and his techniques because that is what works for him. That does not mean he dislikes Canon. Canon shooters can happily attend the workshop and his assistant Josh is a Canon shooter.
Now, did I agree with everything he mentioned…No. He is an instructor, not God. I absorbed all the information and then chose what to keep in my bag of tricks. But to call him a “bad instructor†because of a disagreement of equipment or technique, well its not right. We are all humans with individual needs and wants. As a student we should go in with an open mind, absorb as much as possible, and then retain was is deemed valuable. And one last thing. Moose is very accessible on the phone when he is not traveling. I called him a few days after the workshop and he answered my equipment question on the spot. If someone has a problem in the workshop, I am sure he will listen.
I will take another DLWS workshop in the future. I recommend them with no reservations.
One last, last thing…Nikon, Nikon, Nikon!
Great thoughts on the subject Scott. I’m sure so many of us who are established in our careers have forgotten the early days when we didn’t know anything. There’s definitely a technique to being a good student, and I think you nailed it very well. Thank you.
This post really rang true for me. I don’t have anything to add that hasn’t been said in other comments already, but I do run into this everywhere. It’s not just isolated to classes, but any group environment where you have those one or two people who feel it’s their duty to run the show, right or wrong. I tend to follow the sit down, shut up, and ask questions to learn, not to try to undermine the instructor and be a Me Monster, as my favorite comedian Brian Regan would say.
ناقلا، کسی رو پیدا نکردی برای این پستت، خودتو مهمون کردی!
ولی از شوخی گذشته، مطلب بسیار جالبی بود.
ممنون اسکات
Great post Scott.
Sort of off topic, but still related (loosely)… Does anyone know of any good product photography workshops? Not one of those “shoot for eBay” workshops, but more along the lines of a pro-grade workshop.
Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Tim
I agree. Hijackers everywhere. The other thing that has not been mentioned here is the “hot chick” syndrome. I have been to many workshops where the instructors fall over themselves to cater to the hot young chicks. I, having the misfortune of being a grumpy old fart, cannot compete for the instructor’s attention. I feel short changed in my learning experience by both diversions.
Great points.
I’ll also add, as an Evangelist at Adobe who instructs people on Flash, Flex and AIR development, that playing the “Stump the instructor” game also benefits no one and doesn’t make you look like the “smart guy” it makes you look like the “disruptive jerk”. I’ve had so many developers show up to my events and start asking me ridiculously complicated, specific, and irrelevant questions just so they can look smart in front of their peers. I always shut them down and ask them to follow-up after the event.
Now, if you have a complicated question that is on-topic and adds value to the conversation, that’s one thing. But instructors know when you’re just trying to show off. It’s pretty obvious.
Hi Scott,
I had such a wonderful time last week with Laurie, Moose, Dave & Matt. I learned so much that my brain is still trying to process all of this information. I hope I didn’t ask too many questions or take over. I don’t think I did. What I attempted to do was listen and even evesdrop on conversations the instructors were having with others.
Be sure and tell the four of them “Thank You” for me. I know I told them multiple times, but when a student thanks me, it means more than the paycheck.
Thanks Scott for an excellent guest blogger post,
Mike Reeves
Amen Scott. As an After Effects instructor, I’ve had all kinds as well. While most of the students are great – there’s usually that “one!”
Another bad student situation: someone who’s signed up for a class without knowing the basics of the subject. A class runs the most effeciently when everyone’s on the same page.
Thanks Scott! I can’t wait for you next seminar in DC. I hope you guys are planning to return soon.
++bronson
Great guest blog, Scott.
I have only have the privilege to attend one Seminar so far, It was with Ben Wilmore, and at the start of the seminar, he asked the crowd not to ask questions or interrupt the class, but to save the questions and comments for the breaks between sessions where he was available to answer any question. He would then at the beginning of the next session briefly comment on some of the questions.
By that disarming any “hijacker” right away. Experience Im sure..
Ben is truly a great teacher.
Great seminar.
Jan
Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing! What an awesome thing to have such a respected and knowledgeable “guest” on had to cover.
So when are you going to come to the Seattle area? I promise to be as good a student as I possibley can.
Both as a photographer and a clinical psychologist for a couple of decades, I’ve had my share of difficult situations with students/clients. In this type of situation, I’ve told the offending person that his/her questions deserve more attention than I could give him/her at this time–without, that is, not covering all of the material I need to in the class. I then tell the student that I will be happy to discuss their questions after the class. If they keep going, I repeat my answer again–the same “broken record” technique kids have down pat! I also use a “stop” hand gesture to add the nonverbal cues to my message.
Just some ideas…there are so many good ways to do this.
PS. I also have a slightly used straight jacket….
All I can say is AMEN!
Outstanding blog–one that needed to be done.
Scott,
How to you continue to pick such spot on topics?
Not sure any comments really got to the heart of the bad students problem. I think it’s a lack of confidence. Any person that’s confident with who they are and what they know (or don’t know) should be open minded about learning something new or a different approach from the one they are familiar with. I’d like to consider myself a Photoshop expert but I would never tell another expert that their approach is wrong or not how I do it (unless they asked). There’s just too many ways to accomplish things in life for there to be one right way. But there are certainly better and faster ways to do things.
Bad students shut up and learn!
Thanks for the input Scott,
Having this as the first go around with the interior lighting workshop, I can admit that I was more focused on teaching than student management. However the comments from you and Matt on site were extremely helpful and I will keep those in mind for the future. Hopefully everyone got something out of the workshop regardless of the “bad students” both days. Thanks for taking the time to make this post and helping me become a better teacher.
Best,
Thomas
Hey Scott,
I like your post, especially not wanting to let your loyal fans do without, although I was still hoping to see Kalebra Kelby’s “The Real Scott” guest blog Wednesday post!
By the way, I think that Steven Marks post #38 was really on the mark and I think that a lot of the people in the dog pound wooping “you tell’em Scott!” could learn a lot from looking at his perspective of empathy.
I had a university experience where most classes encouraged and actually graded on classroom participation and contribution, so I may have a little bit different take on this than you do. It was the belief that students would learn just as much valuable information from other students as they would from the profs, and in the non-lecture part of class, the profs acted more as moderators for class discussion than anything else.
I do believe that getting information from and sharing information with the other students really helps supplement the presentation of the instructor. Often times the instructor is such a pro, that they have absolutley forgotten what it is like to be a newbie, and like with The Holy Hand Grenade, they sometimes blow through a couple of steps along the way that aren’t so obvious to the people trying to learn from them. Sometimes it is the insight of another student that will solidify the concept for everyone else.
What I will often see is that even the best prepared instructors don’t always pay attention to the questions asked by the students and while they feel that they have answered the question, sometimes they leave the student more confused than before. This is usually the point where I will raise my hand and either restate the question or ask in a little bit different way, in the hopes that the instructor will catch that they haven’t answered the question and restate their answer more clearly. For me I think the real learning comes from the questions asked and answered, because it is usually where the insight comes from.
The other thing I see in these workshops is the tendency for instructors to sit there and show off their portfolio and not really explain why what you are looking at works or why it is being shown in the first place other than for the ego fulfillment of the instructor. Look how good I am, so it must be worth what you paid to come here. And while every now and again I will pick up something from this type of instructor, I tend to have to look to the other students to actually pick up anything of real value out of the class.
@ The Wanderers: I hear what you are saying about wandering off when the instructor is explaining a concept that you already have down cold, say like setting up and leveling a tripod, but what you can do is hang with the group and watch for the student that is really having a hard time getting it and then when they walk up to the photo line, say something like, “I have been to a bunch of these and when I first started I couldn’t even figure out how to extend the legs on one of these. If you want I can help you out if you’d like.” If they are a good student, they will appreciate the camaraderie. Maybe even lend them a hotshoe mounted bubble level to show them how it is easier to level your camera (Or if you happen to be a Nikon SHOWOFF
, show them the leveling screen on your D300+).
It can make you feel really good to help and I find that sometimes when I try to teach something to someone else, I find a way of doing it better for myself. I think that this is different from hijacking as you aren’t disrupting the whole group and it is more like a study group or tutoring session.
yeah, Scott, you rock! that’s why i always check out your blog.
i had my fair share of doing and going to workshops and i think you hit the nail on the head. the best teacher is the one that is the best student. thanks for sharing your nuggets in life learning not just for photography and photoshop. continue to do what you do and i hope no ones tries to change your style and your beliefs.
looking forward to you coming back to Hawaii again. i love your workshops and your work. thanks again.
Aloha Brady
Scott,
that was a great Guest Blog Wednesday Entry. You should give this guy more space on your website…
Scott:
Another great post and a real service to class-taking humanity!
People can clearly see what a person is all about when it’s time to sit down and pay attention.
There’s a saying that teachers are the worst students, and you’re an exception. Thanks for the interesting post.
Right on the money! Amen Scott!
I like to refer to these people as “classholes”. =)
Scott….
Good points… all of them.
I think as a paying student we owe it to other students to keep our instructor the center of the educational process.
I will say however that I recently attended a seminar… actually a lecture more than a seminar… from a “name” photographer. A name everyone here would recognize.
I was astounded at the poor quality of the presentation and the information contained therein.
I certainly didn’t feel it was my job to police the lecture… so I sat quietly for 60 minutes and left. Left disappointed that a photographer with a good reputation did such a poor job…and that so much bad, and in some cases incorrect information was disseminated to students eager to learn.
It would seem that the lecture/seminar circuit is filling up with instructors as fast as it is students…. and it’s becoming more and more important for students to vet their instructors…. to make sure the great photographer you want to meet with is equally skilled at teaching and presenting the information you want to learn
Teach and shooting are two unique skill sets… and not common to all photographer.
Michael
Interesting comments . . . what wasn’t covered in this post by Scott is the instructor that puts down the student(s) that do not have the same laptop computer as the instructor. Too many seminars find it appropriate for the instructor to publicly ridicule the students that aren’t using a Mac. I stopped going to those seminars; instructor put-downs like that are counter-productive to the learning process of using PS. Scott should know!
Hi Scott,
As far as I am concerned, you can have that Scott Kelby guy as a guest blogger any day…he is good.
You are spot on with the “bad student”….nothing more annoying than that!!…especially after paying good money to attend a workshop…I will never understand why such people pay to be in the workshop to begin with.
Looking forward to tomorrow’s photowalk in Jakarta…and hope to meet you in person at Photoshop World in a couple of weeks….
Cheers,
Scotty
Hi Scott: not sure if you will ever read this, but…
I teach my own workshops down here in New Zealand and believe me, I have had more than my fair share of wannabe instructors….
If it is OK with you, I want to hand this out the night before we start….
Many thanks. get that guest blogger back…
Better still, can I borrow him for my next workshop?
Second, he equates psychologist with inters in dysfunction. ,
What am I to Think about Easter? ,