Lightroom 2 vs. CS4 & Lightroom Conspiracy Theories
Sep. 26
10:37 am
I’ve been seeing a lot of comments on the blog this week that I wanted to address, but when I was talking about it to my buddy Matt Kloskowski (who’s getting similar comments on his blog), he suggested that we do a short video, rather than writing the 5,000 words it would take to address both the “Lightroom 2 vs. CS4″ and my and Matt’s carefully orchestrated coverup of the problems some people have been having with Lightroom 2, so to round out this week, here’s a video clip, created exclusively for you guys, on both of these topics. View the video
Great topic. I can understand how comments like these feed upon themselves. The folks who post are likely the ones having the problems, which gives the impression that everyone has a problem.
As someone who has been using CS4 for a while now, I found the new Bridge vastly improved and I will be using it more to import and do the initial sort of my images. Then I am back in Lightroom to do the editing, creating web galleries and printing.
Just think of it this way, as a Lightroom 2 user, you are ahead of the learning curve for Adobe Camera Raw in CS4 because the “New” features are already in Lightroom 2.
Hey Scott,
How your mother????? Angry Posts, Angry Posts…
Ok, Lets see I mentioned your mother and left angry posts.
No seriously, thanks for the video it explained and taught me something else. I have people send me pics all this time that I want to get into photoshop and bam, now it hit me to use bridge to get them in. Of course this was a “DOugh!” ala Homer Simpson moment.
Thanks again for a clear and through video.
Tom
Amen! In my local photoclub when one person has a problem with PS, LR, … you can bet that the week after everyone has the same problem. And when product A comes out, all the other products are suddenly “old”. The same is happening with the new Canon 5D (I’m a Nikon user). Suddenly everyone is telling that this is the best DSLR, yesterday it was another brand/model. I know a product has to work but what people seems to forget concerning Lightroom is it version number. How many products are already stable at this stage?
Now, let’s all go to work, take pictures and enjoy our hobbies instead of mourning about just everything…
Great video guys. I’m sorry to hear that some people have these conspiracy theories or think you have some kind of hidden agenda. I follow the NAPP guys regularly, and It’s so clear to me that you’re all out to help people learn and share your enthusiasm for photoshop and photography.
And I’ll admit that I had some issues with Lightroom for a bit, but ya know what – I went on the NAPP forum, got a workaround in no time, and was happy as anything. I know Adobe works sooooo hard to give us the best products and goodies we need and like. Just seeing them at PSW and reading their blogs, that is soooo apparent to me and I’m really grateful.
I think that getting angry over a glitch (that will probably be fixed in no time) is like turning your back on your favorite sports team when they lose just a single game all season. Go Adobe!
Matt/Scott,
Great video guys, nuch better than the 5,000 word blog. Yup I’ve had some performance issues with Lightroom – but I know Adobe will fix it. Lightroom 1.0 had problems – they fixed it. As for conspiracy theories well there’s one behind every grassy knoll as they say.
Cheers!
Scott,
It’s great to see you guy’s take the LR2 vs ACR5 issue on however there are a couple of areas you did not address.
The first being the idea of users sticking with LR1.4 for all features other than the develop module and using ACR5 for develop module features. To follow up with yours and Matt’s position: ACR5 should be able to read files and the adjustments from LR2 however Adobe does not have to provide the ability to change (all or some of the) adjustments made in LR2. Sure CS4 buyers would be upset but if they really wanted the Lightroom develop module features then they could buy Lightroom. You are correct about the feature set being present in LR1.4 vs CS3 but the improvements in LR2 are strongly within the area of the develop module so why should CS4 users get that functionality for free?
Second the idea of Adobe providing a discount code/coupon for those users who bought LR2 who would like to upgrade from CS3 to CS4. The justification for this discount is that users who purchased LR2 have already paid for the ACR5 engine once and should not be required to buy the same code again. There must be value for the ACR 5 engine otherwise ACR5 would be a free download.
The way Adobe is playing the game now has the appearance of Lightroom users having to pay for the privilege of being an ACR beta tester (as witnessed by the problems you addressed in your video). The way this thing has shaken out has many Lightroom 2 users wondering that if CS4 had been release first would not the current version of Lightroom be a free upgrade version 1.5? I know that you don’t set pricing policy for Adobe but your calling out these discrepancies would carry quite a bit of weight in the industry.
Thanks once again for all your hard work.
Great video Scott & Matt!
To all the people who have commented about the video topic, how much would you enjoy either blogs if all Matt and Scott ever talked about was the “problems” with Lr or PS? BORING!!!
I stalk both blogs because of the great tips, freebies, I value their opinions, and well, they’re just all around great guys (you can send the D700 to…)
Thanks a million for making sure that the conspiracy is safely covered up
Thanks for the great reminders. No software is perfect.
Thanks for the post Scott. I’m sure that’ll quell the dissenters (somewhat) =).
My question is about moving 80% of your workflow to Lightroom. I am *so* comfortable doing my edits in Photoshop with adjustment layers and masks that I can’t quite push things into LR–usually I just develop and pump to Photoshop.
Do you have any plans to do kind of “portrait retouching for lightroom” or similar sessions on kelbytraining.com? It’d be great to move some of those methods over to LR, and outside of your book there isn’t much out there about the actual application of LR tools for photographers.
thanks!
Hi Scott!
Thanks for the video! That’s so true. When you read posts about problems with lightroom, it’s obvious that only people who actually have problems post them into Adobe’s support forums! But to some people, it seems to have the impression that everyone faces these problems…
Have a great weekend! I am going to “photokina” in Cologne/Germany tomorrow and having a good time playing with the new stuff in the world of digital imaging!
Thanks,
Markus
Hi Scott,
Nice job on the video. Lightroom and Photoshop have gotten so similar. I must be too old school, I still use Lightroom to open my Raw files and make a few color corrections, then do most of the work in Photoshop. I think it’s just a hard habit to break. You away hear people doing 80 percent of their work in Lightroom.
Also, thanks for the information about the “Instant JPEG from Raw†utility from the Michael Tapes earlier post.
Thanks,
Robert
http://www.photographyandthemac.com
Scott,
you guys did the right thing.
I’ve had problems with my software from time to time, and yet my friends who are Mac users have not had the same problems. (different problems maybe, but not the same^^)
This little video makes complete sense to me, and I am sure will make sense to everyone else out there.
Thanks Scott and Matt for your amazing insights and logic.
Hi Scott- thanks for the attempted explanation. Since I can’t post a video to your blog, I guess I’ll have to be the one to write the 5,000 words.
Why I won’t be buying CS4
I, like a lot of other folks, am feeling a bit used. I guess the feeling is similar to walking away from the used car lot and realizing that despite your best efforts, the salesman managed to talk you into the extended warranty and “rust-protection†package.
Adobe first announced the public beta of LR2 in April and said the beta period would extend until August. You posted several blogs on the topic and speculated a target release date sometime in September. I started checking into LR2, not being a Lightroom user and watched all the NAPP videos on the cool new features available, including your discussion with Matt on the ACR vs. Lightroom.
Then in July, Adobe, in what is now clear was strictly a marketing move, abruptly released LR 2.0, a not-quite ready for prime-time version. I think Adobe realized they would have a hard time using the new adjustment brush and gradient filter as their main selling point, when these were included with CS4. Everybody at NAPP quickly ramped up the sales talk, singing the gospel according to Adobe, stressing how LR2 had all these great features that weren’t available in PS CS3. Many casual users, myself included, bought into the hype, bit the bullet and shelled out our hard-earned cash for LR2 and your book. The fact that LR 2.0 wasn’t quite ready can be seen by how fast they released LR 2.1 to fix a lot of the problems people were complaining about.
In September, just a month and a half after shipping LR2, Adobe fore-shadows the release of CS4 with the keynote address at Photoshop World. Just how little Photoshop is a part of this new release is pretty well demonstrated by the official CS4 launch this week. The PS portion of the announcement was squeezed in at the very end of the webcast as a truncated version of the keynote address from Photoshop World. Clearly Adobe is pushing hard for you to buy their full product suite, saying that taking stills in so very yesterday; today you have to be multi-media, Flash-enabled, podcasting and releasing content for mobile devices to be relevant.
As a casual user and un-official “family photographer†I don’t have the money to buy those products and certainly no need for them. As for purchasing an upgrade of PS only, the main feature being touted so far on the NAPP learning center is “Oh look, ACR 5 now does all the cool things that LR2 develop module does.†In your explanation video, you say “Well, of course it has to. We can’t have two versions of raw processor out there.†Sure PS CS4 has some cool new features, but most of them are geared toward high-end users with an eye on multi-media integration with other Adobe products. And no, I don’t think “flick and toss†is worth the $300 upgrade.
The bottom line is, I feel like I was expertly sweet-talked into buying LR2, where you guys were stressing all the advantages it had over PS CS3, while for the last two months, you were playing with working versions of PS CS4 that you knew would provide similar functionality. I also bought your book, showing how to integrate LR2 into my CS3 workflow. Now I guess you expect me to buy the new version of your LR2 book showing me how to integrate with CS4.
Really, the only advantage to LR2 that I am seeing is in the area of Digital Asset Management. I would tell people that if they are a professional photographer in need of a good DAM program, and they can pass their costs onto their clients, check into LR2. If they aren’t, skip it. If you got suckered into buying LR2 like me, I would opt to skip CS4 and wait another year for CS5 to come out. Some might consider skipping the full version all together and just get Photoshop Elements, which has ACR included, if your only reason for upgrading is having your ACR version match your LR version.
Not quite 5,000 words, but probably long enough.
Scott and Matt,
Great video and really great way to get out lots of info fast and easy. Hope you guys use this type format more often.
John
Scott!
I can see how the new Camera Raw in PS CS4 is very much like the Develop Module in Lightroom 2. and how that may mislead people, but I don’t think this is the case at all!
Far from it, I think what Adobe are trying to do is give both users of Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2 those very same features so no-one hopefully is left out. They both use the very same plug-in I know.
I watched the video you and Matt had put together to try and cool things down, and totally understand how software companies like Adobe do as best as they can to listen to their customers, which they DO, the vast majority of the time! Because as you and Matt rightly point out, the last thing they want to be doing is writing updates for software that sometimes runs on shaky hardware which they absolutely cannot possibly address, except where updates are needed for good reason of course!
However, if I may play Devil’s Advocate here and just point out how many of Adobe’s loyal customers here in the United Kingdom are STILL paying over the odds for Adobe’s Proffesional products, (except of course if one is entitled to an Education Product, and still benefits by paying Half Price if they decide to upgrade to the Commercial Version) being an exception where Adobe ARE quite generous. They should still give a thought to freelancers on a tight budget who aren’t entitled to Student discounts and shave a few hundred off the Retail Price, especially more so for the Master Collection.
Now I don’t want you or your friends to think that I’m whining here, nor do I expect yourself, or anyone from Adobe who reads your Blog to act upon this anytime soon, far from it, but just to leave you with that thought is all! I want also to be ‘balanced’ as I possibly can too when writing this which I very much hope I have.
I really do appreciate your efforts with thanks!
Scott,
It’s a conspiracy! You should have known what I would need, what I could afford, planned my purchases and anticipated my satisfaction level. You.. you …you… adobe conspirator. lol!
Remember, nobody expects you to please everybody….but they do expect you to please them.
Thanks for your hard work. Between the blog and the podcast you give away more free content than anyone I know. The value you give so far exceeds the cost to most of us. I occasionally go buy one of your books just because I feel guilty for stealing so much of your knowledge for free.
Consider this a genuine thanks from very satisfied customer.
Like it or not—If you don’t upgrade your software and be on the same page as Adobe wants you to be—you’ll eventually will be left behind, way behind. People can bitch and moan as much as they want about how, when and what Adobe makes and updates, but if you’re a designer or photographer you need to use their software—they pretty much drive the design industry, you’re at their mercy to an extent. Does my G5 run kinda slow with 8GB of ram using Lightroom 2.0? Kinda. Will Adobe fix it? Probably, they have in the past. At the end of the day you need to embrace what Adobe comes out with and use it to make great looking stuff.
Scott/Matt,
Glad that you decided on a video! Can’t imagine doing a post for that one.
One thing I try to emphasize to my students about the Bridge is that it’s WAY more than just a tool for Photoshop and images. It’s really about the entire creative suite and any graphical file format. This in my view never gets emphasized enough when comparing it with Lightroom.
I know you don’t hear the “good” news from many, but I appreciate your openness with these issues.
Rene
Scott…spellcheck please…”Conspirarcy”?
Then again, a Google search of that spelling brought back 4,570 occurrences. I guess you are in good company then.
Currently, LR2 is just not in my budget or in my desire to learn the features of a new program despite it being obvious that a database type organizing system for photos is probably the best. I trialed LR2 and while liking the new features in the develop model, it was not enough to shell out the money for LR so I could spend more time learning something new. In addition, anyone using either Photoshop or LR should clearly see that the develop model and ACR are one and the same. We did get the change in the clarity slider that was introduced in LR2 and it should be obvious to one and all that the other features would eventually show up in ACR. (I’m guessing that it will only be available in the CS4 version, right?)
I wouldn’t upgrade to CS4 just for those features, but those features, plus some of the other great looking features in the main program make it pretty irresistible. And this from just one of many hobbyists.
We all know the upgrade paths. I bought my Canon 30D a couple of months before the 40D came out, knowing that the new camera was probably coming but choosing to enjoy those 3 months of Camera use rather than wait.
I would have been upset had I purchased LR2 and then saw the discount Adobe is offering if you buy both LR2 and CS4, but, that’s marketing I guess.
Great post. Thanks guys.
Whew! I got worried that I had killed the love there for a while. I still like you, Scott, and will probably buy your Photoshop CS5 Book, but you will hopefully forgive me for not rushing out to pre-order your Photoshop CS4 book
For the other photographers out there who couldn’t bear to read through my rant (I understand), the bottom line for me was if you need a DAM utility for thousands of photographs, have to provide proof sheets and web galleries, then Lightroom is probably right for you. If you don’t have those concerns, you can probably get by just fine with Photoshop, especially with one of Scott’s excellent books to show you all the tricks. The price from Adobe for a PS upgrade is the same as a new purchase of LR2, so if you don’t already have LR and were considering it, maybe this will clarify it for you.
Hey Scott Matt,
Excellent Video guys. Were those MPIX Canvases behind you Scott? I have one on my wall behind my desk too. I don’t have LR2, but I am amazed at the features in the new ACR that are in Matt’s Kelby Training videos. Can’t wait for CS4. I’m sure the school will buy it as soon as it comes out.
Keep up the good word fellas. And, my mother told me that if I can’t say anything nice to simply not say anything at all. However, you guys have NEVER made me want to say bad things.
See ya,
Mike
“”There are some people who knock the pyramids because they don’t have elevators.” – Ferree, Jim
From Battlestar Galactica:
Dr. Gaius Baltar: “Conspiracy requires intent. I never intended… though she said deep down I’d always suspected. But I didn’t know. How could I know? Did I conspire? Did I? No. No. I don’t know. No. It wasn’t my fault. It wasn’t my fault! I am not responsible!”
One last note on this topic (I know you’re probably just wishing this guy would let it go).
It finally dawned on me that I did just buy LR2. I just completed Adobe’s on-line return request and will ship it back. Another option for those suffering buyer’s remorse…
I guess I will need to buy Scott’s Photoshop CS4 book after all
Hi Scott (& Matt),
Living in the UK, for me the deciding factor is cost – I have PS CS2 but not Lightroom. I would buy both, but it will be CS4 only. The approx. cost for both in the US is $430 but $612 in the UK. I know that you, Matt, John Nack etc have heard about this [pricing] all before [and that it is outside your influence]. I bought Sony Vegas Pro 8 last December when Sony put “on offer” – Premiere Pro CS3 was 2.54x more expensive. I also remember a blog [can't recall whose] saying that Adobe’s idea is simple – why sell one product when you can sell two. Unfortunately, it is also cost [and a reduced list of membership benefits] that stops me joining NAPP or visiting London to take part in one of NAPP’s few visits to the UK.
Don’t get me wrong – I just love what you guys do and how you do it.
Chris
I think a lot of people are being unrealistic about this whole thing. Imagine if you will how it would sound if Scott or Matt told people not to buy one of the products for any reason. Just the thought is ludicrous. “Don’t buy LR2 because CS4 is coming out soon.” Adobe would never let them work with something that’s unreleased ever again. There are probably confidentiality and liability agreements in place, as well. Get real people! (to the conspiracy theorists and complainers in general…)
OK Scott & Matt,
Scully and I have talked it over. You guys are being watched and you know whom by. Keep a low profile for the next few weeks and everything should blow over. Next time, call us before you use the “C” word.
Fox Mulder / Dana Scully
Hey Scott, Matt,
While I can’t believe that you haven’t ran into any of the lightroom2 issues (like it forgetting picks when moving a photo from the import collection to a collection set) I do think the video was excellent, I actually wish you would do more video like this and the mpix tour on photoshoptv as its format is starting to feel a little stagnant, my opinion only of course.
Thanks guys and keep up the great work!
Cheers
Jonathan
Great discussion guys! I had a feeling that the Lightroom users might be a bit twisted up with the release of CS4. I pre-release tested Bridge and Photoshop CS4 and it took everything in me to keep my mouth shut every time a Lightroom user started bragging about the local adjustment brush and other Lightroom features not found in the CS3 package. It really does make sense that the RAW engines be the same between the two pieces of software, and I don’t see any other way for Adobe to handle it. Those guys do an awesome job with their software, and they do an awesome job with listening to the users (the pre-release forums were a true testament to this). As software users, we couldn’t ask for a better company than Adobe.
Scott,
I am probably one of the bottom 1% of the people who somehow can’t depart so easily with the flow of cash needed to play catch-up with all the digital advances; LR: CS 3,4 …new Mac G-5’s, books just overfilling all of your blogs each week,courses; seminars, creative suites,and three $ grand lenses (sorry,glass) that seems to be the take-it-for-granted requirements for your viewers.
The single complaint I have ( I know I stand alone) is that the basic requirements or specifications needed to upgrade from CS2 to CS 3 and now CS4; LR: ACR Creative Suites,etc are just not detailed for the buyer prior to purchase.
E.G: my buddy purchased LR with a Mac with only 640 MB; never realizing or knowing that without the ram upgrade to at least 1-2GB of ram he can’t install LR on his computer, a G-4 tower dual processor. In other words without a computer upgrade first, you can just forget about installing any of the new Adobe software. I would think that some software problems may really have to do with people who do not have the ram needed to hold the software download or the state of the art present day computers that most of the new adobe software is meant for.
I am sorry that this is such a minor note to post here; you and the crew are such terrific and charming salespersons that one is lulled into forgetting that yours is a business,cash up front,and reflects the privilege class who can purchase adobe software,cameras,books,etc without blinking an eye at this digital economy.
You three charming,amusing and informative musketeers of photoshop land can lead us all to the poor house if we are not careful.
I knew this sort of topic would have to be covered eventually, and I think you guys did a great job discussing it. I am a little surprised that the community response went in an anti-Lightroom direction.
I do so much work in Lightroom 2 now that I wouldn’t want to shoot without it. When I saw the feature list for Photoshop CS4 my thought was “I can do most of that in Lightroom already, so I don’t have to rush out to buy CS4″
Great post and great attitudes, guys.
Please guys, don’t be so clever!!!
My head almost exploded watching this!!!!
Cheers/
EB
Hi guys
Great video and all, but here’s a question:
What kind of lightning setup did you use? The all-amazing Spiderlites?
I’m thoroughly pleased with LR2 (don’t using PS at all actually (and don’t feel the loss)), and I’m at the point where I’ve realized that it isn’t first and foremost the software that makes my pictures (duh) -even though LR2 still helps me make up for all the bummers I seem to do. Seeing this revelation, one thing I’ve started paying more and more attention to is: lighting (call me slow, I know..).
So – Spiderlites, eh? Any other brand you could recommend? (I can’t seem to find those Spiderlites here in Norway -got the impression that strobes still are used heavily, but I’ve completely fallen for the idea of lamp light).
Thanks.
Scott,
I was looking for a contact page and couldn’t find one.
Could you PLEASE pass on to adobe to leave in the copyright metedata in the”save for web” portion of CS4. Now that the orphan copyright bill passed this is so important.
Thanks
I don`t listen to conspiracy theories but if I spend my hard earned cash on any product I do expect it to work!
I have used LR since 1.0. 1.3 was a bit of a disaster (but free) and quickly updated! LR 2.0 had some excellent additions. But having listened to John Nack lambasting Aperture I expected something better from Adobe!
Well I stumped up my cash. SLOW,SLOW,SLOW! The Grad and brush were great ideas but clearly did/do not perform well. Further there was little else added, just playing catch up with Aperture. So, very poor performance in some areas, but clearly this area was performing little better than a Beta Version! This was far from a finished product! Why should I have to put up with this (I also pay “rip-off” prices in England)!
To make it worse, I also had an Export problem. I was presented with a very peculiar Error statement so I contacted Adobe via e-mail and waited and waited and waited!!! Eventually I received a garbled e-mail in pigeon English. I asked for verification on what they were trying to suggest and then, astoundingly received a very sarcastic reply the gist of what suggested that they (Adobe) were not there to teach basic computing! I replied strongly and suggested they communicate in English.
Reasonably quickly I received a more helpful technician and eventually cured the Export Error by deleting the plist and rebooting. Fine but why the arrogant useless response in the first place? Maybe the improved service had something to do with the fact that I said – cure it or money back!
The performance issues are still there and I have seen little or no improvement with 2.1.
This is simply just not good enough! Without any effective competition Adobe are having an easy ride. If there was competition perhaps things would improve.
Agreed, no conspiracy, just poor performance and atrocious customer service.
LR 1.4 runs like a dream, so Adobe cure the problems or MONEY BACK!
Angry, you bet! But like many pros, I don`t have much choice do I?
Roll on Aperture 3.0!!
Lightroom 2.0 is fantastic for me that want to edit and organize photos. I seldom use Photoshop now days (I have used Photoshop since version 3.0). I mostly use CS3 to make a final retouch on some pictures…the rest is done in LR. I don’t understand people that complain about Lightroom 2.0.
It’s not 100% perfect but it the best on the market for it’s purpose. Time is money, you save a lot of time using LR instead if Photoshop.
Regard
Magnus
Some people complain just to complain. I don’t believe Adobe is like the government. I think it’s cool that CS4 has the same tools as LR2 and it would be crazy if they didn’t. Cool video by the way and I totally forgot about using bridge for photos I don’t want to import into my LR library. I however will skip out on CS4 because I have no need for it’s new features because it does nothing for my workflow, especially since I use LR for almost 90% of what I do and PS is just for certain actions and looks I can’t get in LR. Also I don’t expect either software to be perfect Heck sometimes my internet is slow or sometimes my RSS reader doesn’t load like it did today. I’m not going to blame Adobe for it. LOL! Neither am I going to blame Apple, Firefox, or Comcast. It’s a computer and these things happen sometimes. L8er
I’ve been a happy LR 1.4 user for a while. Is upgrading to 2.x worth the $100 for a fairly-serious amateur, or is the money best spent accumulating for new lenses?
Thanks for the video post it cleared up allot. I was wondering why I bought Lightroom after seeing what bridge was for. Well being new to all of Photoshop wonders and all of its use’s I’m glad your video cleared up my wondering. Now I just have wait for CS4 to ship. Thanks gentlemen.
Scott & Matt
I have a dilemma, after watching your video on CS4 I said to myself now is the time to move up with the big boys and change from Elements 6. But after watching your conspiracy video. I am now unsure what to do, this is based on your comment that 80% of your work is done in Lightroom. What is the 20% that you do in CS4? I am an enthusiastic amateur Nikon D80 user who enjoys taking all sorts of images. I shoot in RAW. Do I really need CS4 or LR2. I really enjoy your blog and I have two of your books and Matt’s book on layers.
Keep up the great work
George Osborne UK & Florida snowbird
OK people, repeat after me:
Bridge is a browser, Lightroom is a database. Bridge is a browser, Lightroom is a database. Good.
Now repeat: The develop module in Lightroom has the same processing pipleline as ACR (and presumably always will). As Scott and Matt said, they need parity for so many reasons (Smart Objects just one). They are not 100% identical (point curve anyone?), but the edits are honored each way. You could use Point Curve in ACR, the metadata edits will carry over into LR.
Next and important Repeat after me: Lightroom and Photoshop are different tools!!! ACR, is a Photoshop Plug-in, Photoshop it self can’t deal with Raw data, it works on baked pixels, its not a parametric based editor. Those that hear “we use LR 80% of the time” then say “But I need Layer and Layer Masks” are not understanding the difference here between pixel editing in Photoshop and parametric editing in ACR/LR. Its like assuming that because Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign all have a type tool, they function the same way, on the same data to provide the same tasks. They don’t.
What is useful here is understanding the role of using the right tool for the right job. Its probably safe to say, you’ll NEVER see Layer Masks and the like in LR. Why? Because that’s the wrong place for that functionally. It is the right toolset in a pixel editor like Photoshop. LR was designed not to be Photoshop, it never should be. Mark Hamburg the architect of LR used to call it the “Anti-Photoshop” and for good reason.
LR is far more than a develop module. As Matt said, if you’re only using that module, you shouldn’t have purchased the product. Use ACR. And if you’re goal is to organize your images, Bridge can’t do that, its not a database. These are different tools, unfortunately due to “marketing” they all have the name “Photoshop” in front of them. That doesn’t mean they are the same tool and that you don’t need to purchase and use the tools you find necessary for the tasks you need to accomplish.
As for CS4, like any upgrade, you have to look at the new features and decide if its worth the money to buy and the time to learn.
Hi Scott;
I’ve always enjoyed your posts, and, particularly when I was getting started in digital photography, your books…I still use one of your books as a guide for the Photoshop Elements class I teach at a private middle school. And while I agree with the basic premise of your video (software isn’t perfect…nor is software/hardware compatibility across such a breadth of combinations) I think you may be missing something as well. Sometimes users just want to feel like they’ve been heard…and acknowledged. A post that recognized the problem some users were having – and the workarounds while waiting for LR 2.1 – might have stilled the waters a bit even though they were availabe in the Adobe user forums. And in regard to upgrading to new versions of PS as they become available..Adobe is playing hardball by only updating ACR for the most current version. Users that are content to stick with a version even just one generation old are FORCED to upgrade if they want to use a familiar workflow with a new camera (at least if they’re shooting RAW). I can see Adobe not supporting ACR three and four versions back, but to limit current camera RAW conversions ONLY to the newest version of PS is a disservice. As upgrade cycles for both hardware and software grow shorter and shorter, there needs to be a path for users that skip a generation of software so that they can AFFORD a new camera can still use their familiar workflow. LR and PS are both great products, but at 12 to 18 month products cycles for both hardware and software these days, keeping current gets very expensive very fast.
> I can see Adobe not supporting ACR three and four versions back, but to limit current camera RAW conversions ONLY to the newest version of PS is a disservice.
What do you mean by “support”?
If a newer version of ACR or LR doesn’t support a newer camera, convert to DNG using the latest and free DNG converter, you can then use the older version (albeit without newer tools) to convert.
Hi Scott, first of all I have to say that your tutorials and books are really helpful and one of the main reasons I like my career on design and photography even more; thanks for your excellent blog, great tutorials and passion for teaching. Now… moving into the topic, I just simply agree with many things said here on the blog. There’s no right or wrong. In the end everything is reduced to a personal choice, as Andrew Rodney said a couple of posts above. I have a limited budget to buy certain equipment or software and sometimes it’s tough to keep up with this modern world pace. On the other hand it’s inevitable to purchase certain tools (like Lightroom 2) that I know I need to have my work accomplished faster. I think that the new features of CS4 are really good and some of them very impressive but as Deke McClelland said on his last podcast: is up to the users to see if Photoshop CS4 offers them what they need. It’s a Buy or It Dies dilemma. My conclusion is this: I know designers that still do wonders with Photoshop 7 and sometimes is more important the creativity and doing simple things regardless of the version of software you have. But also there’s a moment when you need to do things quickly. So our future workflow will take us to our personal answers. After all… it’s just an opinion.
P.S. Scott: sorry for my bad English but I hope I made my point clear.
Best Regards from Mexico City
Alberto A.
Thanks for the info.
Scott & Matt,
.Thanks……
I believe in Adobe….I just want what I paid for to work…that’s all I ask.
dj
You beat me too it Kelby… (shakes fist)
I briefly talked about this topic on my blog this morning,
wish i had checked the Kelby blog before I wrote it.
-NateB
nbenson.wordpress.com