It’s “Guest Blog Wednesday” with Matt Kloskowski, Pt. 2!
The Destructive Workflow (Erase, Merge and Flatten)
Hi again folks! I’m happy to be back here on Scott’s blog and I thought I’d change it up a little this time. See, I took a look through some of Scott’s old blog posts and looked at some of the really popular ones. It seems you guys love it when he does that Q&A thing to himself, so I’m going to borrow (OK, steal) it for my guest post too. Here goes:
So Matt, Scott made this post seem really controversial. What’s the deal?
I’ve been toying around with the idea of this post for a while now. It first hit me about two Photoshop Worlds ago in Orlando when I had quite a few people ask me about how to follow a non-destructive editing workflow. I spoke for a while with one gentleman and asked him how many times he had to go back and change his work after he was done. He said, “Well… never really”.
Then, my idea was solidified at the last Photoshop World in Las Vegas when I taught a Photoshop Restoration class. In the class I use the Eraser tool and I flattened and merged layers a lot. After class I always look through my evaluations (usually right after the class if I can) to see how everyone felt about it. I came across an eval that told me I should be ashamed of myself for showing people such a destructive editing process. That’s when this idea was born. I mean, after all I was just showing people the way I actually work. Isn’t that what they came for? I don’t think people don’t want to see me teach a bunch of techniques and tools that I never use.
First off, please stop asking questions in your answers. That’s our job!
Sorry.
Are you the only one who feels this way?
Nope. What’s really interesting is that, at the same conference, Scott taught a retouching class (mind you, Scott and I had never had this discussion yet either). Retouching is full of places where you can try to keep a non-destructive document, or you can merge, erase and flatten like heck. Scott asked how many people worked with some type of art director or client that would (or could) continually push back on them to change their work after they’ve already submitted something. The results were really interesting. Two people (out of 800) raised their hand. I taught a class in San Francisco to 500 people last week, and asked the same question; four hands went up. So to answer your question, I don’t think I’m the only one who feels this way at all.
So what really is a non-destructive workflow?
Non-destructive seems to be a big buzz world these days. Throw the other buzzword, “workflow” on the end and you’ve got the uber buzzword. So what’s the big deal? Well, I think the idea behind non-destructive is a good one. You give yourself a way out. A way to change if you ever need to. The RAW format does a really good job at that because no matter what we do, we can’t permanently harm it. As a photographer I like that. It’s my negative and as long as I back it up, I know I’ll always have access to the original photo if I want.
That doesn’t sound so bad. Camera Raw seems to take care of all the non-destructive stuff for us. So why are you such a hater?
See, after we get out of camera raw, and into Photoshop, we get into all the other things that we may want to do with our photos. Retouching, skin softening, enhancing eyes, whitening teeth, removing crack pipes, changing the color of a shirt, removing a telephone wire… the list goes on. Are there ways to do that stuff non-destructively and save every layer at every point throughout the editing process? Sure there are. But do you really need to? Now that’s the big question.
Before we move on. Didn’t we warn you about asking questions in your answers. We’re giving Scott full permission to pick on you in the next episode of Photoshop User TV!
(Cat sound!!!) I’m sorry! Last time, I promise.
No sweat. Don’t let it happen again though. Now…Does that mean you use the Eraser tool?
Yep, I erase constantly. When I want something gone from part of a layer I erase it permanently. I could use a layer mask and do it all non-destructively, but if I know I’m not going to want it back then it’s history. Gone. Deleted. Erased. You may be thinking that I must inevitably erase something that I didn’t want to at some point, and wish I could get it back, right? Yep. I do. Ya know what I do when that happens though? Undo. I get 20 of them by default with Photoshop, and can increase that number if I want to.
Surely you don’t merge and flatten your layers too?
There’s no badge of honor for creating a Photoshop document with 167 layers in it. In fact, I like to work fast and for me, the less layers the faster I (and Photoshop) move. Sometimes when I work on a portrait, I duplicate a layer and blur it to soften the skin a little. Then I’ll ERASE the blur away from the areas that I want to stay crisp (eyes, mouth, hair, etc…). If I’m happy with the results then I press Cmd+E to merge that duplicate layer down with the original. Might I want to go back and un-blur the skin? I suppose – but I never have. No one has ever asked me to do that so why save that layer. It makes the Layer’s palette harder to navigate and it makes my PSD file size larger, which, in the end, takes longer for my computer to process.
Any other crazy destructive things you do to your photos?
Well there is one. I’ll warn you though. This one elicits death threats from some people out there and I’m sure I’ll get some hate-mail from it, but 90% of the time I open my files in 8-bit mode and I don’t care one bit what my histogram looks like because of it. You may be thinking, “Hey, that’s not erasing or merging or anything destructive like that!”. Ah, but it is. You’re tossing away a lot of image data (I hate the word “data” when it comes to photography by the way) when you use 8-bit. Is it data that you need? Probably not. I’ve got prints on the wall that no one can tell me if they were shot in Raw or JPEG, Canon or Nikon or edited in 8 or 16-bit mode. Unless I’ve got a major exposure or color correction to do in Photoshop (which I usually don’t since I’ve already done that in Lightroom or Camera Raw) I open as an 8-bit file. And if I do decide that I’ve got a photo that needs some extra lovin’, you know what? I’m smart enough to know this and, in those cases, I open the file in Photoshop as a 16-bit image. So what does 8-bit buy me? File size mainly. It’s half the size of the 16-bit file and with these huge megapixel cameras these days, I’ll take everything I can get to help me work faster rather then non-destructively.
Let me get this straight Matt, didn’t you write the Layers book?
Yep I did. In fact, you can buy it here if you’d like
The real irony here is that I teach this non-destructive editing stuff. I teach it A LOT! My Layers book turned out to be my best selling book ever by a pretty large margin, so it must have struck a chord somewhere.
I gotta tell ya’ Matt. It sounds somewhat counter productive that your Layers book and blog post here are at odds with each other.
Yeah, I agree. Here’s the thing: I still believe wholeheartedly in the premise behind that book. Why? Because it makes me a ton of money (I’m totally kidding!). Seriously, I believe in it because I think Layers are still the key to everything in Photoshop. Even when I work destructively in Photoshop, a layer is always involved. See, layers and masks don’t go away in my destructive workflow. My need to preserve them at all costs does.
So what you’re saying is I should learn Photoshop like I learn many things in life. I need to learn the rules and know why they’re there. Then I need to learn when to break them. If I’m just starting out in Photoshop then I’m probably better off trying to save as much as I can because I’m still learning my way around. As I become more comfortable though, I shouldn’t feel like I have to work the same way I was taught in the first place?
Yes, exactly.
Alright, to sum this all up, you’re telling me to go forth and destroy pixels?!
No! I am not telling you to go forth and destroy, so please please please don’t go telling everyone “Matt Kloskowski said to erase, merge and flatten”. I’m not saying that at all. All I’m saying is to think about it. This is what I do because it works for me. Think about the type of work you’re in and who your clients are. Do they often request changes? If you don’t have clients (or your client is yourself) then consider how many times you actually go back and edit the images that you worked so hard to non-destructively change. This will vary for everyone and only you know the answer. But if that answer is “Never” or “Not very often” then at least consider whether it’s worth the hassle and extra file size to try to do everything non-destructively.
Is that it?
Almost. Two things.
1) Please do me a big favor and leave a comment here. You won’t hurt my feelings if you don’t agree – I’m looking for a realistic gauge to see how you folks feel about the topic. Is it a “Yeah, you’re right!” or a “Dude, you’re crazy. I live for non-destructivity!” reaction? I’m honestly interested to see what the general consensus is here.
2) I’ve included a short 5-minute video below to show you an example of my destructive workflow. Watch it and see if it makes sense. Finally, thanks again for reading. Even if you don’t agree I hope it’s at least got you thinking. Now let the hate-mail/comments begin!


















I’ve felt this way for some time. I see tutorial after tutorial practically demanding I work non-destructively. Thanks, Matt, for giving people some perspective. It’s rarely necessary.
As an amateur photographer I probably flatten more than 80% of my editions in Photoshop. Love your little video tutorial
Just curious.
Why is my previous comments awaiting moderation?
December 18, 2008 at 5:30 am
As an amateur photographer I probably flatten more than 80% of my editions in Photoshop. Love your little video tutorial
Matt, I think destructive is fine in a lot of cases, i wouldnt disagree with anything you did on the video, but i barely ever use the eraser tool, always prefer a mask…not because im anal or anything just that i find it easier to toggle the mask than undo if i screw up.
I do think its still a better approach to teach beginners an non destructive workflow, what comes to mind is the learning to drive analogy, First learning how to drive to pass your test before finding a more natural way to drive that suits you.
I also merge down frequently in an edit and i think it just comes down to a level of comfort and confidence in your edits, if it looks good …it looks good no need to preserve it as an editable layer. I would say people that keep every single layer are the kind of people that get out of the shower to pee
Matt: I feel better now after reading your post. One of my favorite PS shortcuts has been always been “Command-E”. Also, the video was super. Learned a new way to creative sharpen an image. Thanks!
IhavebeenusingyourtechniqueeversinceIstartedusingPhotoshopandnowIcangiveitaname! ThanksMatt!:-)
Matt,
I am a 70-30 person (flattening 70+% of my layers). The only time I don’t flatten is when I seriously think I will need to go back and change something. I teach some classes on PS and PS Elements and when I am asked about flattening, I always tell them that it is a personal choice, and that 1. Always back up the original photo (in-case you ever do need it) and 2. If you feel you will most likely never go back to change the photo again then by all means flatten it to save hard drive space. Then, when asked about my personal work-flow, I tell them that I make my decisions based on a project by project basis, because different projects require a good number of changes, and others don’t.
I always enjoy seeing how others work, and I will try new things just to see how they work out!
ThanX for your articles!
~TYE
Matt
Pay Attention To Hank. If You Are In BUSINESS Not Being Able To Adjust Your File And Make Any And All Changes At The Whim Of Your Client Costs You Money DidI Mention Money? If You Never Have To Make Revisions Im Envious Please Continue Teaching The Fastest Absolute NON-DESTRUCTIVE workflow With A emphasis On Smart Filters As A basis Of Speed And Efficency And Yes The Space Bar Is Not Working
Steve
Matt talks common sense. Each person has their own workflow methods that make sense to them. I always save a copy of the original RAW file, then work anyway that makes sense for each situation. Not that I haven’t had to go back and start again, but by then I usually know where I went astray an it’s fairly
easy to redo in a timely fashion, making the proper corrections.
Thanks Matt, for keeping it real.
Thanks for the blog Matt, your subtle humor always brings a smile to my face. Also, I find
your work habits similiar to my own, although I am not on your level (in fact I haven’t reached the word Level yet) I will continue to forge ahead with guidance from yourself and your cohorts.
I only save layered versions of files that include text. I’ve got a few jobs that repeat every year and having the original text file speeds up my workflow. But beyond that, I’m a big fan of command E.
I’m here reading this blog due to the link from the LR killer tips blog
I do agree with you, but only to an extent. In my personal work flow, I tend to do non-destructive editing. I will save the image, and then come back 24 hours later. I then compare the original and the edited version (lightroom compare view FTW), and if I still feel satisfied with the edited image, I will merge everything down to 2 layers, where one layer is the edits, and the other is the original. This lets me always have a version of the original along with the edit at all times (like attaching a dupe to your print), and then I archive. Great blog post, but at the same time, I would be somewhat cautious of handing a white belt nunchucks, for fear of the damage they will do to themselves.
Matt, I agree totally. I’ll add one slight modification though. Sometimes I’ll keep the “non-destructive layers” around for a little while…5 minutes to 15 minutes of work maybe depending on the image. And then when I’ve had a chance to think about and see the next few steps I’ve done to the image, if I’m still happy with the earlier results I’ll go back and delete those now unnecessary “backup” layers. So I’ll use them as a safety net, but yeah, eventually they bite the dust.
Lots of times though, when I’m working on stuff just for myself, I’m like you and don’t even keep them around at all…
Doug
I’m an improving photographer and photo editor. And I confess I also destructively edit for all the reasons Matt gave. I edit for myself and if I want to redo, I have my raw file.
I just rewent through my 2007 files and deleted many 40-100MB nondestructive edit files that I have never reused. Now I can put off getting another hard drive for a while.
Great post Matt. Agree with everything you suggest… it’s the way I have been working for years. The 1-2% of the time that someone wants me to change something that I had flattened — I just re-create the edits ( which typically means a couple of minutes of work)… Brave comments about the crack-pipe… too much info. :~)
Lightroom Tips reader here :-}
Thank you for pointing out that I don’t need to save 100s of layers. Hooray!
I’m a beginning photographer/Photoshop user and I found your video extremely helpful.
Thank you!
I tottaly agree with you! Your way, was my way, before I knew your way
I agree with much of what you say. Glad to see I don’t have to feel guilty if I merge, flatten or erase. But I just had to redo a photo collage that had about 30 photos in it..needed to add five more…and was real glad all those layers were smart objects with masks! Message here no hard and fast rules…experience will tell you when itis OK to destroy and when it isn’t.
Matt,
You’re not alone. I just completed Scott’s “7-Point System” book and he’s merging layers all the way through. I agree – it all depends on what you’re trying to do and for whom.
Peace,
Mike
Hi, Matt. it would be nice to download your video on destructive work flow. I am unable to see it at all. It starts getting ready to show the video, then stops after a few words.
On your killer tips website, the videos downloaded easily and I was able to watch them.
I have been a member of NAPP for a few years and am currently in Israel readinlg and watching your killer tip videos without trouble.
Lynda
Matt thanks (AHHH, Can you hear the angels Singing?) I can now save a lot of space.
You are so on point because 95% or higher of the time I don’t go back to those other layers to use them again. Bravo for you.
Keep in mind that you imported the original and backed it up to a 2nd drive before your started doing any retouching (right?). If your workflow consists of the same steps for similar photos, you are probably able to recreate any modifications you made the the original, so unless you destroyed your brain cells along the way, nothing was really destructive after all.
Thank you for that – sometimes the obvious, isn’t.
It makes sense really. I have big PSD’s saved and I have never touched them since I saved them. If I would wan’t to modify the image again using new techniques or your look changes, I’d start again with the RAW file.
awesome!!!
im currently studying photography, and kelby’s cs3 book is one of our textbooks. our instructors constantly tell us to remember to use layers, layer mask, smart object, so on, to work non destructively. however, i find i agree with your view that there is no need to work non destructively ALL THE TIME.. its all up to our judgement.
Matt,
The important thing is that people learn how they can work non-destructively, because it can be invaluable when needed. If you are new to Photoshop using layers is not intuitive, so you start just using tools and often make mistakes and need to start from scratch. This is very frustrating. Once you learn about layers, the magic starts to happen and the joy.
If I am working on photos, I keep few layers. If I’m working on a design, ad, or brochure, I keep them all. There is often the need to change something, if not for the current project then for the next use of the design. Thanks.
Hey Matt,
Thanks for the post and for the prompting to comment. My feelings echo that of your inter-mock-view… I want my result to be on the wall or in an album getting acolades, not the number of layers I keep in the file.
That said, I find it greatly depends on the type of work that I’m doing; a family picture, or a scenic that’s being edited has a much different layer composition than a graphic I am including text, or other layout guides (take, for instance a CD label that has text; I keep layers for the text, a layer or two or three for the CD shape to mask over the image being printed…)
So, thanks again for the post!
-cb
Hi there Matt:
As for me I always work with a non destructive workflow and have for what seems like ages. I will agree however that I almost never need to go back and change anything. Old habits die hard I guess and I’ll just keep stacking them up.
Thank for the read. It was interesting
Barry
Thanks man, I totally agree with you. Good post!
hey, yap, I aggree with you. learn first, digest, then work smart. in photoshop
Greetings from Venezuela!
As a professional, or even as some one who works with photos/graphics daily and often, the chance is ALWAYS there that something will get messed up and you’ll have to start over. That’s just a part of life and to be expected.
The non-destructive editing is a fantastic idea if you have unlimited processor speeds and disk space. I don’t… Therefore, I keep all the layers until the project is done, and then if something needs changing later after the file is condensed and merged (usually half the layers or less), then I have a semi-starting point with my left over files. I also tend to save several versions if I can forsee it happening.
I’m also too distracted to type out specific examples, but the point is that I agree with you. If the action can easily be re-created, there’s no point in saving a bajillion layers for it.
Matt,
As a self taught photoshop user I have always worked in a “destructive” manner.
So thanks for making it more PC.
Very late to the thread, but it’s worth noting that in the wake of Photoshop 4’s increased emphasis on creating layers, we started teaching people the mantra “Command-E is your friend.”
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I think if it looks good it is good. But I love using layer masks rather than the eraser tool. If you erase using a layer mask you can refine the edge of the mask further (in CS4) by using the feather command. That would be more difficult to do using the eraser tool.
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