The “Photoshop Seven-Point System” Q&A

I’ve been getting a number of emails, and posts here on the blog, about my book, “The Photoshop Seven-Point System,” so I thought I’d put together a short Q&A that will hopefully address some of the most frequent questions. Here we go:
Q. I can’t find out where to download the photos used in the book. Where are they?
A. The download link is listed in the last place you’d look; the book’s introduction. That’s why from here on out, I’m including the link in more places in the book.
Q. Why don’t you just put the link here?
A. It’s because the downloadable images are just for people who are using “The System.”
Q. I’m trying to use Lightroom instead of Photoshop CS3, but it won’t let me take an image from Lightroom into Photoshop CS3 as a Smart Object. How come?
A. It’s because at this point, Lightroom doesn’t have the option of opening images in Photoshop as a Smart Object. I’m hoping that Adobe will include that option in Lightroom 2.0, but at this point I have no idea if they will.
Q. But I use Lightroom for all my raw processing. Is there a workaround?
A. Well, yeah, but it’s pretty clunky (which is why I called it the seven point system for “Photoshop CS3″ and NOT for “Photoshop CS3 and Lightroom”). Here’s a step-by-step:
STEP ONE: Take the image into Lightroom’s Develop module and process the image using the techniques from the Photoshop CS3 Seven-Point System.
STEP TWO: Switch back to the Library module, then go under the Metadata menu (up top) and choose Save Metadata to File.
STEP THREE: Ctrl-Click (on Mac), or Right click (on PC) and from the pop-up menu that appears, choose “Show in Finder” (on Mac), or “Show in Explorer” on PC. This opens and brings to front the window where that file resides on your computer.
STEP FOUR: Inside that window, select both your image file, and the XMP metadata file (they should be right next to each other), and copy these to a new location on your hard disk (I told you this was clunky). I make a copy of mine and put them on my Desktop, so they’re separate from the one I used in Lightroom, but you can actually edit the same image you used in Lightroom—just don’t drag it to your desktop or another location.
STEP FIVE: Go to Photoshop CS3, and choose “Open as Smart Object” and that image will open in Photoshop CS3’s Camera Raw, with all the changes you made back in Lightroom. You can continue applying “The System” from here.
STEP SIX: The clunkiness continues: There’s no easy way to go back to Lightroom for printing or more editing, without reimporting the photo into Lightroom like you would any other photo on your computer. I know, this isn’t what you wanted you hear, but this is why I didn’t include a section on Lightroom in the book, even though Camera Raw and Lightroom’s Develop module share the same controls. When it comes to using Lightroom and Smart Objects, at this point the two don’t really mix.
Q. Can I use “The System” if I have CS2, instead of Photoshop CS3?
A. Well….no, not really. A key part of the system requires that you use the Camera Raw functionality of CS3 (even if you’re shooting in JPEG or TIFF). So, if you try “The System” using anything other than CS3 (like CS2, Lightroom, etc.) it’s not the Seven-Point system. It’s the five point system, or the 6 point system, or well…something else.
Q. Does “The System” Work with Photoshop Elements?
A. Nope. Sorry ’bout that.
Q. I heard there was a flickr group for people who use “The System,” and that they’re posting their before/after photos there. What’s the link?
A. The “Seven Point System Before/After” flickr group is at this link right here.
Q. Will I wind up using all Seven Points on every single photo?
A. I sure hope not. The more messed up the photo, the more points you’ll need, but chances are you won’t have to use more than five or six for most photos, and that’s a good thing.
Q. You refer to some sharpening actions in the book, but I can’t find them. Where do you download them from?
A. You don’t download them–you build them yourself (as a way of learning how to create and use your own actions), in one of the first chapters in the book. That way, you can use those actions throughout not only the rest of the book, but in your own workflow as well.
Q. Does “The System” really work?
A. I can honestly say, that I get more emails from people who swear by “The System” than probably anything I’ve ever written for Photoshop. The “Seven Point System” is one of the most rewarding things I’ve done as a teacher, because I really set out to help folks who are struggling. I wanted to find a way to really help them to finally get their images to look the way them always wanted them to, and to hear from so many people around the world, and read so many wonderful reviews online about the success they’re having, is just incredibly motivating, encouraging, and gratifying for me. When you’ve devoted your life to teaching, this is the kind of stuff you live for.
Well, there you have it. A few things that I hope will help answer some of the lingering questions about “The System.”











Your up mighty early Scott, good to see it tho.
I picked up the book for Christmas and I must say it has not only changed the way I look at photo processing in Photoshop, but in taking pictures as a whole!
As a fan of your work in the past, and a now avid follower… you are at your prime good sir. Thanks for the Q&A too, it didn’t really answer any of my questions but I’m sure it helped out tons.
I just got the call to say that my two copies arrived today (one for me and one for my dad) because last time I ordered just the one Lightroom Book from Amazon my dad took it just after I did a cover to cover read and I haven’t seen that book since. So I will be collecting it from the PO Box later this evening along, wondering how long it will be before I take delivery of your Digital Photography Book version 2 (the first version being referred to by my photography friends as “the bible / the good book”.
Oh no, I think its time to get a new flickr group going of Kelby Book Addicts. The KBA members can post photos of their book shelves - honest I look at my book shelf and see eight books and 5 of them are Kelby Books…
Thanks for the information anyway Scott, I am a Lightroom user so I think you should do a video tutorial or at least a more in depth blog post on the Lightroom with 7 point system, obviously I don’t understand why you need to import files as smart objects (no until I get the book).
Scott
After looking at the images on the flickr group all of which have been made much more punchy a visually exciting, it is clear that you have created the Scott-Kelby-7-Point-Look. Is this a good thing? Clearly people’s images have been improved, but at a loss of indivduality.
Good Morning! Thanks for the FAQ. I do have to admit - I go a bit off the beaten path and use CS2 and Lightroom. I have to improvise in some places, but my before and after shots are Kelby Quality! This book is definitely a keeper!
Thanks for putting these up Scott, it answered a few things I was thinking about cross processing. I do really wish Lightroom can talk to PSCS3 seamlessly it will make life a lot more easier and archiving would be easier too.
Thanks so much, Scott, for the FAQs. Like you and other folks, I hope that Lightroom 2.0 makes working with LR and CS3 a seamless process.
Scott,
I use Lightroom and your 7 point system in a less clunky way than you describe when needing to double process an image.
1 In Lightrom Develop the photo according to 7 point principles. Then open a copy in PSCS3
2. Create a virtual copy in LR and Develop this one for the highlights or darker areas according to need (white balance is still as per the first copy). Again open a copy to PSCS3
3. In PSCS3 stack the 2 images into one file by dragging one layer over the other picture, convert each layer to a smart object and carry on as per the book.
This way you can save back to Lightroom without any trouble - one of your copies is overwritten with the PSCS3 changes and can be placed at the top of the stack.
The book has taken my processing of photos to a whole new level… it’s just excellent, thanks
Nick
I recently finished writing a series on my blog about design and part 10 involved “preservation” and security concerns in regards to design. I gave your book a plug in the article.
http://www.spinningsilkmultimedia.com/the-aspects-of-design-part-10-preservation/
I’m still not sure where noise reduction fits in.
Hi Scott-
Have you given any thought to having live trainers available (for a modest fee) on Kelby Training? This way when someone has a question or a problem, Kelby Training could have someone they could reach out to for assistance. I was thinking that if you could leverage a utility like “webex” then a user could even share his or her desktop, so the trainer could see exactly what the problem the user is having and provide knowledgeable advice.
Just a thought, keep up the good work!
Hi Scott,
I just got home from vacation with about 4000 images to go through. I am going to get really involved with your 7 point book during this process. I did some experimenting with the manual settings on my camera during sunsets and sunrises among other things so I would have images to increase and decrease exposure and stuff.
When I got home I had received my new Digital Photography book 2nd edition from Kelby Training. I can’t wait to have a chance to go through this book. First, however, I have to catch up on a week of your blogs.
Thanks for everything you do.
Mike
Scott,
I have only done the first 5 lesions but I has helped me a lot. I would have done more but I don’t have much extra time to spend on my hobby.
I just want to say thanks for writing such a great book. I got it for Christmas, it was one of the top items on my list right next to the 24 - 70 2.8L lens I got
-S
Scott,
Your book is great and I love it. As far as the workaround for opening a RAW processed file from Lightroom into CS3 as a smart object, I have been doing it this way…
After editing the RAW file in the Lightroom Develop module, you can simply drag & drop the RAW file from the Lightroom filmstrip to Photoshop CS3. (This little trick only works from the filmstrip.) This will cause the RAW file to open up in ACR with all Lightroom adjustments in tact. Then, you can proceed as you outline in the book from ACR, hold the shift key and the ‘Open Image’ button changes to ‘Open Object’. Click on ‘Open Object’ to get the RAW file into CS3 as a smart object.
msacks,
If you are a NAPP member try using the HELP desk located within the HELP CENTER on the NAPP website. I have found this to be a great resource and I was surprised by the quick response time as well!!!
Kevin
Scott, the process between Lr and Ps has been bugging me, as it apparently has for others.
I have to believe that Adobe will listen to someone like you and will do some programming magic to make the process smoother.
Another option, is for them to add a module of Ps type adjustments that are directed towards photographers and incorporate within Lr; ie, more control over cloning and some layering and masking capabilities.
Thanks for the explanations.
BTW - I’m still waiting for them to come up with a method of saving a layout (with specific images in specific placements) within the print module for future printing of same pictures and layouts.
The workaround required to go from Lightroom to CS3 is not that much of a problem as Adobe has designed their system so that XMP data (inside a JPEG or in a sidecar file with RAW files) is the method for exchanging information between the 2 programs. (until Adobe elects to let CS3 read and write Lightroom’s catalog files this problem will continue. Of course CS3 writing to Lightroom will probably cause even more problems requiring more work arounds so I’m not sure if the fix is going to be a good thing.)
The return trip from CS3 to Lightroom is not really a problem at all. If changes are made in CS3 to a smart object then these modifications can be reflected back in Lightroom by just selecting the “read metadata from file†option from the metadata menu. Upon selecting this option Lightroom will then update it’s database (catalog) with any changes that have occurred to the file in ACR (being used as a smart object) while in CS3.
Scott is correct in saying that the new file (CS3 file with layers that includes the smart object) must be imported into Lightroom so as to be available for use in Lightroom. But this is not a workaround because we want to maintain the original image from Lightroom without changes that have been made in CS3.
All that said I think the System rocks and it should be required reading for all but the most advanced Photoshop users.
Scott,
I’ve been working my way through the book, and it’s GREAT! I, like some others, use Lightroom rather than Camera Raw and my work-around is similar to Nick’s. My difference is that I just develope my image in Lightroom to expose the shadows the way I want and hit Ctrl/Cmd-E to edit the image in CS3, stacking it with the original in Lightroom. I then switch back to LR and reprocess that same raw image to expose for the highlights instead, hit Ctrl/Cmd-E and to edit that one in CS3. That gives me the two images in CS3, exposed for highlights and shadows without much fuss. I can then convert them to Smart Objects and stack their layer in CS3 easily. When I’m done processing the image with the stacked highlights/shadows layers, that’s the one I save. I just close the other without saving, and then delete it from LR as well. This leaves me my original and processed images stacked in LR.
Much the same, really, but a little different twist.
Ed
Hey Scott. . . just got the book last week and it helped me save a photo for a poster 16″x20″ I’ve made for the out going Miss Rodeo USA Queen this week. Without the techniques you showed in the book I would have tried to use a completely different photo, which I didn’t have that many to choose from!
New printing service that Staples has is called Snapfish.com. You can upload your photos for different size posters, starting at 6.99 for 11×14, and 19.99 for 20×30 size. Service is within 24 hours with pickup at your local Staples store. It’s part of a HP service, but it turned out great!
Thanks again for the techniques!!!
Your buddy Dr J
Hi Scott- love your books have shot 35 film for a long time. I read Digital Photography and picked up some nice stuff. Just switched to a real digital camera, I had a point& shoot dig. also got CS3 I’m having a tough time with your download pics my cs3 says it won’t support your Nikon nef raw files!!!? I supports my K10D pef files no problem what’s up?
Thanks
Mike
Hi Dear Scott;
I got addiction to your books and “philosophy” since your CS2 book, I have finished your 7-Point within a few weeks after its release, and considering that I am NOT in USA, it was a real record for me. It melts my fear of Photoshop and now I am “expert ” on my own class:-)
One point regarding your on-line training courses,please do not forget your international users, because of technical reasons I do NOT get full advantages of these courses, so please do NOT stop publishing of EXCELLENT books .And may be you could publish these on line courses in a printed book, such a book on retouching and…
Thanks,
…and forgive me for my poor language
Scott, looked at all the pix on Flickr, you should be very proud. There were truly some very “ordinary shots” that became standout images after your tutelage.
I am presently going through your book, and loving it…..
todd
mike dull, make sure you are using the latest version of Camera Raw:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html
Scott,
I love the 7 Point processes. I use Lightroom, but if and when I need to open a Smart Object, I just open the image in Bridge, and away I go. I find your book easy to follow, and very helpful also as a reference document. Using your downloaded images made the “tutorial” easy to follow. Thanks!
Blessings,
Dan
Scott,
A Lightroom - Smart Object work around:
Open in Lightroom, make our Lightroom adjustments, push the image into CS3, then covert to a Smart Object by , .
Blessings,
Dan
Hi Scott,
I started using your 7 point book a while ago but found most images in the book were much darker than mine on my laptop (I know, not the best screen for image editing). I bought a Pantone HueyPro to calibrate my laptop and it looks better now I think. However, at lesson 11 I just did step seven and do not get the same results as you do. You drag the recovery slider from 3 to 5 to get rid of the highlight clipping warning, but for me it only disappears at 13.
Do you know why this happens? It’s not a huge problem, just something I noticed.
Regards from Holland!
Ow and I forgot to add another thing I noticed. When using your high sharpening (throughout all the previous chapters) I find it hardly does any sharpening. I increase the radius to 3 and keep the other settings the same to get my desired sharpening. Isn’t a radius of 1 for such a large picture too low?
Scott,
I’ve just started the 7-point process and am enjoying the learning experience and demystifying CS3 a bit. Thanks.
Some observations/comments:
1. The first time I went to download the photos there was a single file with all lessons which I downloaded but the lessons images did not agree with the lesson numbers. I could find the image but the numbers just didn’t agree. (That file no longer appears at the website.) I have subsequently downloaded the 3 batches of images and so far they track correctly.
2. On lesson 2 at Steps 25 & 26 you take us through Filter>Sharpen>Unsharp Mask & Edit>Fade Unsharp Mask but in Lesson 1 we created an Action that does the same thing. Why not reference the “Sharpen High” Action we created previously? Did I miss something.
Thanks,
Bill
Of the several Lightroom workarounds suggested I think Chris Lewis’ takes first prize for simplicity and fewest steps involved. Just drag the RAW photo (doesn’t work with JPEGs) from the LR filmstrip into Photoshop and it automatically opens in Camera Raw. What a great tip! Note that your LR adjustments will NOT be recognized by CR. At least mine weren’t. So it seems we have to begin the 7 Point System in CR. Not ideal for a LR user, but still preferable to the added steps of saving metadata to a file and copying files to a new location or managing dual copies of the same photo in LR as others have suggested. Until Adobe updates LR to include support for Smart Objects (I have submitted an enhancement request to a Product Manager/friend of mine at Adobe), Chris’ solution is probably the best option.
Many thanks also to Scott for addressing this issue and for hosting an interactive blog where we can not only get useful info from the master himself, but also on occasion from those of us who read his daily entries.
Scott,
Just a couple more observations as I continue my lessons:
1. At lesson 3, step 5 it was necessary for me to incrrease the Recovery to 93 (rather than the 5 you were able to use) before all clipping was eliminated. (I do calibrate my monitor weekly.)
2. The NEF for lesson 7 opens in Camera Raw with significant adjustments already made. It is easy enough to reset everything to agree with step 1 of the book but just wanted to let you know. (I am using the image from the download of files for just Lessons 1-7.)
Thanks,
Bill
Hi Scott,
CS2 for Digital Photographers improved my photos tremendously. Looking abck at my old photos it is like a dirty film clung to them…that is now gone. The best trick for me was your section ‘Color correcting Digital Camera Images’ in Ch 6. It erased the dirty film and revealed much better color.
One question, though. In that chapter you give target color numbers for RGB output and for CMYK output. I am a print designer so, of course, use the latter. I recently produced two books back to back. On the first one I used the RGB targets by accident and thought I was doomed when I discovered what I had done a few days before it went to press. I changed the presets to the CMYK targets for the next book. In looking at the two later side by side, I felt the better targets actually turned out to be the RGB ones–or maybe my adding a sharper contrast curve to them helped a lot. In any case, the colors were more saturated, the blacks much richer. The photos had more ‘pop’. And both were printed on the same press one after the other.
I have just bought your ‘7 point’ book and noticed in one of the early lessons-#2 I think–you have different RGB targets–for (inkjet) color printers. I wondered what targets you recommend for CMYK now–and what you use yourself. Your photographs look great in the book. Rich, saturated, clean…what more can you want–at least on the printing side?
Thanks
Kelley
Hello Scott,
I have made terrific use of your seven points book and thank you for developing such a consistent workflow.
Lately, I have been re-working my old black and white negatives and was wondering if you have any suggestions/tips/workflow for enhancing these in photoshop, camera raw, lightroom, etc?
Thanks
Roger
As for using lightroom and smart objects.
Why can’t you simply load a virtual copy of the image you have used for the lightroom portion of the points into PSCS3, then convert it to a smart object after it has been loaded. Then save it back to LR when finished. Then make another virtual copy if needed back in PS3?
Hi, not sure if anybody’s come across this issue before but when I drag my LR-edited RAW file onto my CS3 icon it opens up in ACR as expected (I’m running a Mac). Holding down the shift key allows me to ‘open object’ but once the image is in CS3 I have problems.
The thumbnail in the layers palette is showing me the smart object curled page icon but the background to this is plain white. If I try and edit the smart object I get the following error:
‘Could not edit original smart object because the disk is not available’
I’m running everything on a local machine so can’t really make much sense of the error.
Any advice greatfully received
Scott,
just wanted to alert you of my situation as of now;
I’m sitting in my hotel room after a 10-day holiday in NYC where I have taken about 600 photographs of various sights and “tourist-y” buildings, attractioncs etc., but as I look at them, I realize that I have little or no clue on what to do to process them into a beautiful photograph - like yours.
So I resort to the one place where I know I can find help, tips and guidance - the internet. Half an hour into googling, I realized that the answer was in front of me all along (in my bookmarks), so I pull up your site and scroll older entries until I came across this post and it hit me; this is exactly what I need.
Sadly, my excitement plummeted when I realized that I would not have the time to make a book-run into the city before my eight hour flight to Norway leaves tomorrow, a trip I was hoping could be spent reading your book and trying to process my photographs into something “more”.
Google (Maps) to the rescue, again; find bookstores near Newark International Airport, Border’s Books inside the airport, check store site for book search, find “Kelby” - I swear, it was like the light in my room dimmed when the results returned. They had it! So tomorrow morning I’ll be heading into Terminal C, Gate 102 at EWR and hopefully they’ll have the book in stock and my flight back home will be so much more educational and fun than just watching old episodes and movies on the 7″ headrest monitor.
Sorry for the rant, hopefully you (or your comment system) won’t mind. And hopefully I’ll learn a thing - or 7! - from your book! If I’m really lucky, they’ll have wireless internet at the airport and I’ll be able to download the photographs used in the book. Cross your fingers for all of the above.
The reason I’m writing this is simply because I’m so excited about it and I thought this perhaps could be a nice story for Scott Kelby to have and hopefully he’ll have a good feeling this weekend because of it. Praise and appreciation is always good, no?
Hi Scott: I have been an avid (okay obsessed) fan of your Photoshop CS3 since I got my library card back. (confiscated for unpaid overdue fines). Don’t worry, I ended up purchasing your books anyway. I have to say your 7-Point system is the best. However, I have turned my back (at least for now) on Lightroom and now use Bridge, ACR and PS 3 exclusively. Why complicated an easy to understand process?
Well, l am looking forward to one day joining NAPP, just as soon as I can convince my wife that we are not really that broke
Your newest fan;
Dean Fey (at least I am on Flickr)
PS I absolutely love your “The Digital Photography Books” I have 4 years of formal Photography B & W Art Study (University of Saskatchewan) and I think I learned more from those little books of yours.
Right from the get go in Lesson 1, things don’t happen the way you outline them and I can’t go forward. For example, selecting the brush, the type of brush isn’t listed and the brush painting, or opening up, isn’t working.
Is this the place to get answers?
Dale