The Diminishing Role of Curves in Photoshop
The other day I’m sitting at my desk between meetings, and I was thinking about something I wanted to do in Photoshop to a photo I had just taken, and something kind of just popped in my head that really surprised me. It was the realization that I hardly use Curves anymore.
Now, I’m not talking about creating contrast using the Tone Curve in Camera Raw, or Lightroom (because I do that all the time)—-I’m talking about actually color correcting your photos using good old-fashioned Curves (as seen above), or a Curves Adjustment Layer in Photoshop (which is essentially the same thing).
This kind of freaked me out, because I used to live in Curves—I was in that dialog 50 times a day for years and years, and I couldn’t imagine doing any kind of color correction in Photoshop without it, and now here I am sitting there wondering when the last time I used Curves to color correct a photo. Of course, I knew why I wasn’t using it—it’s because I now do my color correction in Lightroom or Camera Raw (primarily just by properly setting the white balance), and the only time I really need to bring up Curves within Photoshop itself is if I need to fix the color after I’ve already edited the photo in Lightroom or Camera Raw, and that is pretty rare these days.
I wondered if “it’s just me,” so I walked over to my buddy’s Matt Kloskowski’s office and asked him about his Curves use. He said he couldn’t remember the last time he color corrected a photo using Curves. I think we were both a little stunned. We both still use it when we need it, but clearly its role in both our workflows has significantly diminished.
So, I sent a few emails out to some outside Photoshop’s buddies asking about their Curves use in Photoshop, and I was hearing the same thing from them (one wrote, “…very rarely, but I do use it from time to time”). I don’t think this is a bad thing—I think it’s just an evolution of how we use Photoshop today, and I think it’s a good indicator at how much easier the color correction process has become thanks to Lightroom and Camera Raw, and their ability to process and correct Raw, JPEG, and TIFF images.
Anyway, I’d love to hear about your use of Curves, and whether you’re still using Curves as much as you used to, or if you have modified your workflow to reflect the tools we now have at our disposal. I invite you to take the survey below and share where Curves fits into your current workflow.
DISCLAIMER: I just want to make it clear that I’m not saying anything bad about Curves. I love Curves—always have, probably always will—-it’s a beloved part of Photoshop that absolutely still has it’s place and I would hate to think of Photoshop without it. And please don’t go and write, “Scott says not to use Curves anymore.” I’m not saying that at all—I’m just making an observation of how my use of Curves has changed, and I’m anxious to hear your thoughts on your level of Curves usage.
NOTE: Please only take the survey below if you do, or at one time did, use Curves regularly for color correction in your Photoshop workflow.




















Scott, its somewhat similar here. Although, out of sheer habit i go there often to see what the shape of the curve is when I finish and am happy with the final output of the image. Maybe its just out of habit maybe its just an inner satisfaction thing but once I see the curve I feel I have done justice to my image but yes I agree the use of curve IS dwindling…
I have found the same thing. In fact with the local adjustments in Lightroom, the only time I take a trip to Photoshop is when I want to get kinky with an image (read pixel editing). My drives like that too as the file size does not balloon.
As much as I like Photoshop I think the winning combination for most amateurs, pro-sumers, and many pros is LR/Elements. I hope I didn’t just blaspheme the Adobe Gods for saying that.
Color problems with digital cameras are mostly white balance problems, which are easily fixed in Camera Raw or Lightroom. But when I was shooting color negative film and scanning there were more chances for color to go wrong:
1. film only has daylight and tungsten color balances
2. film processing may introduce variables
3. scanning opens the door to problems caused by the scanner itself, removing the orange mask, and inverting the negative
Color problems introduced by scanned film may be more complex and require a more complicated curves-based color correction.
I rarely use curve-based color correction now because I don’t need to with current generation digital cameras..
Yes. Definitely for scanner and film I must still use curves (strictly for preliminary color correction). For my scanner, I simply have a couple of presets for the curves and they work most of the time, so I rarely have to do much other than applying one of the presets.
However, I don’t use curve *only* for color correction. I use curve adjustment layers quite a bit for creative interpretation (with masks). Lightroom and camera raw do introduce tools (e.g. adjustment brush) that reduce this use as well, but it’s hard to beat curves+layer masks when it comes to interpreting the scene. In my particular case – it happens often for shots that I really care about…
Speaking of curves…I took Dan Margulis Class (Picture Perfect Postcard Workflow) on Kelby Training and I can’t think of a better demonstration of the power of curves and why we still need them today. I recommend everybody should take this class!
The interesting thing about this class is that Dan’s workflow is separated into three parts:
1. color correction
2. boosting Contrast
3. boosting color in lab-mode
And I must admit, I hardly use Dan’s method of color correction (only the first part) because it is just so much easier to do in lightroom!
Makes me wonder what Dan thinks about all this… Hey Scott, could you ask the guy and tell us??
Thanks!
Have a nice weekend!
If I ever use Curves it is for a little contrast boost but rarely if ever for color correction these days.
I’m chuckling that you have to put up a disclaimer before this- but we all know how some would spin it if you didn’t- “Oh so what Scott’s really saying is that if you still use curves you’re a moron and you suck.”.
I like to use curves near the final step just to tighten up the contrast a bit. The old school tools still get brought in.
Its very interesting Scott. I have a DSLR and a Canon G10 and I recently vowed to process all my G10 Raw shots in CS4 using “traditional” methods (rather than CR or LR), just to keep my PS knowledge up to date as I was really begining to forget a lot of the stuff I used to do daily in CS4. Pretty much all my DSLR stuff goes through LR and only final adjustments done in PS now.
As an active photographer of black dogs I still use curves a lot – although in Lightroom. When editing shots of black dogs the typical guideline of a s-curve doesn’t really apply since you want more detail in the shadows. Thus boosting the low end is necessary. Lightroom’s fill light often isn’t good enough for the effect I want/need.
Hi, it’s funny, I realized the exact same thing just yesterday !
)
you know… if i stay and think that’s exactly what happened to me. A few years ago I could not start editing a photo without using curves. now i use Hue/Saturation, levels and curves not so often. It’s strange! I blame Lightroom
(just kidding).
Today I’ll start using curves. … hope to reenter in my life this awesome tool.
Alexandru, Romania
I use curves to boost contrast if I can’t get it to where I want in Lightroom. That’s all I use it for.
I use curves on all most every important image. I use curves in the “Lab color” mode using the “A” and “B” curves. and them convert back to RGB. It’s the best for critical color adjustments or just to experiment for other looks.
Someone mentioned Margulis…I immediately thought about Lee Varis. His skin color correction techniques rely heavily on curves.
As an avid owner and reader of your Photoshop for photgraphers books, you taught me to use Curves for photo correction, especially the great trick for finding the mid tone. I do shoot in RAW and correct white balance there, but I often use the mid-tone steps to check it. I also use the presets in CS4 to adjust contrast, which in a way also adjusts color. Maybe I’m stuck on my work-flow ways but I can’t imagine not using Curves.
You know, that’s funny because I only started with curves 2 years ago after taking a NAPP seminar in NYC. Until then I was using the crappy Canon software that came with my Rebel XT for editing my RAW files. I quickly learned how Camera Raw and Curves could be used together. The better I got at Camera Raw adjustments, the less I needed Curves though.
Now I’m shooting with a 5D Mark II and Camera Raw is my main tool, I don’t even go into PS much unless it’s for resizing, or if I’m looking to add some artistic flair to my images. Most of the time, since my work is mostly considered photo journalism (concert photography) I don’t like to screw thing too many things.
Thanks for pointing that out Scott, I hadn’t even realized it until you said it.
Hi Scott,
It saddens me that you have to put a Disclaimer up when you ask us to give an opinion. I, like some above, only use curves to finish off a photo after LR. I’m talking Raw photos. If I’m working with a jpeg, I’ll use curves to color correct using your Black, White and grey method. Then I tighten up the contrast with curves also. For some reason, I just can’t get my jpegs to look right in LR. Maybe I’ll learn how to do a better job at your Denver LR Seminar! Thought I’d throw a plug in there.
Thanks
Dennis
Isn’t it subjective?
I’m another one of those guys who learned the technique from you (along with Dave’s midtone trick) and have always found that working well. Using Curves will also help you do it “by the numbers”…taught by Margulis or Orwig.
Doing it in RAW is quick and very easy, but doesn’t seem to be an exact science.
I like that Curves gives you a little more structure to depend on rather than your taste alone.
Bravo Scott and company. I totally agree. And its not just curves, its a lot of global Photoshop work that is simply better, faster, cheaper (OK, better quality, faster, more flexible) using parametric editing tools in a Raw converter, where such moves should be made in the first place. Its difficult to teach people who’ve used Photoshop for years and years that there’s a better set of tools for doing this kind of work, when actually creating (rendering) those RGB pixels in the first place. Just like its far better to expose properly than try to fix a mess later in the darkroom or in Photoshop. Anyone who’s hip to the benefits of a Raw workflow will see that Photoshop is a fine tuning tool, at least for local color and tone work. Compositing, retouching and cloning (stuff far more complex than removing sensor dust or work requiring more than a few pins), that’s Photoshop’s domain.
>1. color correction
>2. boosting Contrast
>3. boosting color
Try that in the Raw converter. All doable. Faster, less damage, unlimited history, all applied in an optimal processing order. Note too, there are some advantages above conducting this on camera generated JPEGs for those that don’t shoot Raw.
Oh, the curves in LR/ACR are quite different than the curves in Photoshop so don’t necessarily jump there thinking that’s the first place to start the rendering process. The Adobe team places the controls in a suggested, ideal order (top down, left to right). Even when editing a JPEG or TIFF, curves in LR operate on linear data: Half the data is in the first stop of highlights. That’s not the data distribution in Photoshop and the curves work differently.
>Doing it in RAW is quick and very easy, but doesn’t seem to be an exact science.
How so? That isn’t a very scientific statement. Can you demonstrate this?
There are numbers too in ACR/LR if that floats your boat.
A few months ago I took Ben Willmore’s all day class on Photoshop for photography. The class probably should have been called Curves. Anyway, after that class gave me a deeper understanding of how curves work, I used curves more than ever. But then again I don’t make a lot of adjustments in RAW and I don’t own Lightroom.
I use curves for color correction when scanning negative/slides the same as I’ve always used it. For digital work, I’ve found as others have: I use it less than I used to for color correction, and I still use it for contrast a fair bit.
Interesting because I didn’t think about my changing use of curves for color correction because of the amount of slides I’ve been scanning lately. Now that I’m thinking about it, I can see the change.
I’m 19 and have been using Photoshop for years, and Lightroom since it released.
Whenever I do actually use Photoshop, I use the Curves adjustment layer all the time to do my dodging/burning for portraits. I’ll create one adjustment for dodging, and the other for burning.
I’ve used raw files from day one so I almost alwyas did my color correction via white balance tools in Capture or in ACR when I used that tool. It wasn’t until I saw all these tutorials on using curves for color correction that I started doubting myself and thinking there was something I was missing. But since the white balance tools seemed to do enough I never really adopted the curves approach. So reading this is kinda interesting to me.
Oh sure now you tell me…lol…. I have really been pounding the “Curve Theory” into my head lately by reading “The Complete Guide to Light & Lighting in Digital Photography” by Michael Freeman…. (sigh).. oh well, it well, it will only make my foundation that much stronger…. Thanks for the heads up….
“Scott Kelby for President !!!!” oh wait !!! you are a President aren’t you….?? lol
I’ve pretty much gotten to the point where the only thing I do in photoshop is change the color profile for web, and resize the image.
i’m a graphic designer. i don’t have lightroom at work, nor do i get very many camera raw images to work with here, so i still use my curves adjustments everyday. especially on stock photography.
learned the basics from Ben Willmore, then blew my mind reading/attending Margulis’ books/classes. love the LAB mode. Dan Margulis rocks.
i have lightroom at home though, and it does make things a lot easier, or is that just lazier? kids these days don’t know how good they have it, do they?
The other day I used curves in lab mode to make color corrections and I realized I hadn’t used curves in a very long time. My workflow is tied to Lightroom which offers about 90% of what I need for my landscape photography. When I do portraits, which is not often, I will use Photoshop and curves a lot for the necessary touchups.
As a few others have mentioned I still find myself using LAB mode curves to fix or enhance my photographs, however even there I think that the combination of shooting RAW and some of the color based sliders in LR [white balance, vibrance, HSL] do take a BIG role away from using curves as a standard practice for every image you’re working on. Like most reasons to switch over to PS from LR its when you need to fine tune specific areas of an image or to correct only parts of images do I get into curves + masks.
Yikes, Scott! Look at the way the poll is phrased. How could it help but be biased against Curves? Four of the five choices are “somewhat less,” “seldom,” “rarely” and “don’t use.” The only other selection is “the same amount.” What of those of us who use Curves more and more each time we open up Photoshop–or am I the only one in that camp?
Scott, I still use the Curves because of the speed of feedback. I find that LR is way to slow for me in order to use the adjustment brush while PS gives me instant feedback. That is for specific areas. But, I do use the LR for quick adjustment overall. But as mention on several occasions here, a lot of them are moving away from the Curves. So for me, until LR gets faster I will keep the old fashion way.
If I think my eyes are playing color tricks on me or I think my whites aren’t as white as they should be, I look at the LAB numbers in the info box, where I often find out that my eyes are indeed playing tricks with me and my whites are to blue, yellow, red or green.
If they are off, I go to the appropriate Curves color channel where I can make the changes pretty confidently.
In Camera Raw and Lightroom, I don’t usually fool with the hue adjustments and I use the temperature slider but maybe I need to look into the White Balance thing ya’ll are writing about that is so accurate.
Good topic,
Kirk
I use curves on individual channels in every picture I work on seriously. Without passing judgment on how other people work, if I could have only one tool, it would be RGB curves on an adjustment layer.
To the point about whether LR/ACR provide the numbers like the info palette of Photoshop, I don’t see how to get anything other than RGB readouts.
It’s sad to me to see this post. I was thinking of suggesting that Scott add a video to Kelby Training specifically about the use of curves. My own informal survey of friends reinforces what Scott and most of the comments to this post. My friends just don’t want to work with or learn curves. One of the successes of LR is letting people get it done without using curves.
Like I say, no criticism of how other people work, but in a field where we will pay dearly for image quality (consider outlays for lenses, cameras, lighting, etc) I think it’s unfortunate to set aside a very powerful tool.
Talking with several of my friends I am shocked every time one of them says they don’t use or have never used curves. Most of them only use levels. I think its extremely powerful part of Photoshop. it has so much capabilities than just Color correction.
Such as using it as a layer multiplier if that makes sense.
>To the point about whether LR/ACR provide the numbers like the info palette of Photoshop, I don’t see how to get anything other than RGB readouts.
In LR, you’ve got RGB values that match Photoshop (0-255). In LR its percentages (zero to 100). Its just a different scale. You still know a neutral when all three values equal. You know what’s black and what’s white. In fact, when you work with CMYK files, the scale doesn’t have any bearing on the data; its 8-bit, 0-255 yet the scale is, surprise, 0-100% per color. Its just what you’re used to. What would be useful is to honor a 0-100% scale on RGB documents in Photoshop so as you move from LR to PS, you can work with the same scale, even though, the color space is totally different.
Everything under the hood, processing wise in LR and ACR is RGB. So you get RGB values of course. Oh, be nice of ACR would also toggle to the % scale for parity.
>In LR, you’ve got RGB values that match Photoshop (0-255).
Brain fart, that should read, in ACR you’ve got RGB values that match PS.
Yes agree there’s RGB values available in both LR and ACR, but they provide no LAB or CMYK. I can see a neutral easily enough in RGB values (whether percentages or 0-255), but I can’t easily evaluate skin tones, hair color, foliage, skies, etc.
>Yes agree there’s RGB values available in both LR and ACR, but they provide no LAB or >CMYK. I can see a neutral easily enough in RGB values (whether percentages or 0-255), >but I can’t easily evaluate skin tones, hair color, foliage, skies, etc.
No need for CMYK which is a highly specific output color space for a specific press or printer. You can build in your mind, just as well, proper skin tone ratio’s in RGB. Plus one less value!
Check out: http://digitaldog.net/files/LR_Skintone_Ratio.jpg
These are all differing kinds of skin tone and you can see that there’s a pretty simple ratio here between R, G, B where red is about 10% higher than green which is 10% higher than blue. YMMV but its certainly as effective and as close to using CMYK and CMYK has no basis on the data (and every CMYK profile will provide a differing mix).
Another tip. Start making collections of images that have good skin tone so you can use them as a visual reference to edit other images. You can work visually (on a calibrated and profiled display of course) and use the numbers with these ratio’s to become more comfortable with the scale. FWIW, this is just one reason I really like the percentages for RGB values in LR and would love to see them in ACR and Photoshop.
I don’t use the ol’ CMYK formula for skin tones but use LAB instead. LAB lets me evaluate both color and saturation more easily than RGB (or CMYK). CMYK has its charms (even for an RGB workflow) but that’s another topic.
The suggestion to keep samples of correct skin tones and work visually is a good one, but alas not for me. I have the most common form of color blindness so working purely visually is dicey. I work by the numbers with feedback from those who view the results and complain when I blow it. I don’t recommend color blindness, but it does save money on fancy monitors, calibration equipment, and controlled room lighting.
Oddly, I am still using it, but now as an effect rather than correcting an image.
How come no vote for “more than ever”? With the improved curves of CS4 it’s never been more effective.
Ever since I attend a NAPP seminar by Dave Cross I have used curves. I’ve actually noticed I am using it more with CS4 then before. I love the instant access to it and others in the Adjustment Pallete.
Scott, with your comment on the reduced use of curves… and since the release of CS4 and with Lightroom 2… has your 7-point system work flow changed at all?
I started with curves and i like that i have the most control over my images in curves….i still dont think i use camera raw to its potential i get the photos looking normal in CR then move into photoshop for curves adjustment layer
I just wanted to let you know that your and many other industry blogs are probably being taken without your permission. I ran across this the other day, just wanted to let you know. Even though they aren’t claiming it as their own, for that matter, I didn’t even see a name, it’s still technically stealing and I thought you should be aware.
http://www.photographysmith.com/
In my personal digital raw workflow, I rarely use curves. However, my job as a retoucher requires me work on scans where I use the traditional Photoshop workflow everyday (curves, hue/sat, dust/scratches, etc.)
I also use curves on the occasional digital capture as taught to me by Scott Kelby in “Scott Kelby’s 7-Point System for Adobe Photoshop CS3.”
Hey Scott, I agree with you that I use curves far less now. The only time I really ever use curves now is to combine with LAB mode for serious colour work a la Dan Margulis. The power tools in ACR & LR have now reduced the need for curves from my workflow for all but the most extreme jobs. Isn’t it funny how you never notice you don’t use something until suddenly one day out of the blue it is the best thing for a given job?
Scott – For the most part I agree, but the place where I find I still use curves in connection with color correction is for skin tones. A number of PS gurus have written on this – including I’m sure you, over the years – but I still find Katrin Eisman’s tricks, as written about in her book Restoration and Retouching – helpful. Other than that, not much.
Scott,
Not only do I rarely use Curves in PS any more, but I rarely use PS any more. With Auto WB improving on DSLRs, and Lightrooms feature set improving with each release, my trips to PS are more rare these days. And now with Viveza working with Lightroom, Curves and PS itself may be unnecessary in my workflow. “Curves? We don’t need no stinkin’ curves!”
Scott (and Matt),
Curves & Color correction: Idea for DTown TV – connect the dots on color correction for beginner/novice in both photoshop and capture NX2 (raw converter for NEF files). Does Lightroom &/or Photoshop Raw color correction work the same as Matt just explained on DTown TV using double threshold and black, white, and gray points in capture NX2?
Thanks,
John
The only time I seem to use a Curves layer is when I want to apply some blend mode effects… and I don’t even adjust the curve for that.
Interesting, I didn’t even notice until you said something.
hey scott ! i know this is kind of off topic but did you you ever test you
jobo gps unit ? i really really would like to know what you thik , im going on a trip and want to buy a good gps unit and i value your opinion
thanks !
As an amateur photographer, I use curves to adjust all of the photos (yes, all of the thousands of photos) I took before I bought photoshop and started shooting in RAW. Other than that, I don’t use it in my workflow much.
I have actually decided to start using curves again a little more… I have noticed more and more that professionals are taking a good custom WB as “good enough” and completely ignoring color shift in shadows, and even mild color casts in highlights. A good custom WB is good, but i think an acute eye can tell when that color cast part of the correction has been skipped over.
Hi there Scott, I haven’t actually read through all the comments above mine, but here goes for my small contribution concerning the use of curves.
I have recently begun to use more of curves than in the past, but not for colour correction, but for dodging and burning. I found that using the lighten or darken feature in the presets, helps to do a very good dodge and burn on my images and I use that more than other methods.
I use curves almost every day. But know what I DON’T use? Lightroom or Camera Raw. But then again, I’m not a photographer. I’m a graphics guy. So I’m using curves to create enhanced lighting on my bevels, or tweak the appearance of the clouds filter, or adjust the color in a stock pic I’m using. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense for me to do those things in Lightroom when I’m creating the graphics in Photoshop.
Hey Scott, just wonderin’…….
Have you ever done professional retouching? I don’t mean cheezy portrait work for Mom And Pop down the street, I mean real retouching. You, or anybody here ever done that?
If you do, or did, could we have some advice or talk for that kind of work, instead of this innocuous stuff.