Tuesday Catch-up
Hi Folks, and greetings from 37,000 feet, somewhere over Pennsylvania (courtesy of Delta’s new in-flight ‘go-go” wi-fi Internet service). I’m totally beat, so I’m gonna keep this one short and sweet (that way, I can take a nap before I have to change planes for the 2nd leg back home).
Philly rocked!
First, thanks to everybody (nearly 600 of you), who came out to my Philadelphia seminar yesterday. What a great group to present to! It’s been years since I’ve been to Philly, but I’ll make sure it’s much shorter before my next visit!
Adobe has a challenge
After teaching this seminar in Boston and now Philadelphia, it has really become even more clear to me that there’s just a ton of confusion about the differences between Lightroom and Photoshop. Most of the photographers I talked to yesterday already use Lightroom, but the ones that didn’t, have no idea what Lightroom really does. Most told me they didn’t need it because they thought Lightroom is just a replacement for the Bridge, and virtually none of them had any idea that Lightroom’s Develop module IS Camera Raw. Adobe really has a challenge in getting the word out about the differences between the two, and how they work together, and when you use which and for what.
Eric got a Cheetah Stand
Remember last week when I talked about the Cheetahstand collapsing lightstand? I asked for your comments about how you might use the stand, and well, part of the reason was; I had an extra Cheetahstand, and I thought I would choose one of the folks that took to the time to comment to have that free stand, and that person was Eric Dousay from Little Rock Arkansas. Eric, your stand is on its way!
Photoshop User TV
We’re scheduled to shoot the first episode of our new season of Photoshop User TV today (yes, the set is finally done), and if all goes well, it’ll air next week. In the meantime, you can check out some of the mini-highlight episodes we’ve been posting, along with our “Live from Photoshop World” episode at PhotoshopUserTV.com.
Some amazing photos from China’s 60th Anniversary of Communist Rule
One of my readers’s sent me this link to Boston.com’s article with photos from China’s celebration marking their 60th anniversary, and the photo are amazing (it’s a mixture of beautiful color, and lots of scary-looking military hardware at the same time). It’s definitely worth seeing (though it might make you sleep a little uneasy). Here’s the link.
Tomorrow’s Special Guest Blogger is….
…one kick-butt adventure photographer; and Canon Explorer of Light, Tyler Stableford.
You guys probably remember me raving about Tyler’s work after seeing his presentation in Canon’s booth at Photo Plus Expo in New York, and then Brad took it upon himself to quickly contact Tyler and see if he would do us the honor of being a Guest Blogger here, and son-of-a-gun if we don’t have him here tomorrow. How cool is that! (Way to go, Braddo!). I’ll be here checking it out myself tomorrow, but in the meantime check out Tyler’s portfolio right here.
That’s it from 37,00 feet
Hope you all have a fantastic Tuesday!!!
The point you have about Lightroom / Bridge and workflow is something that I seem to run into everyday. I stated to talk to a local photographer recently and the discussion turned to workflow. He was under the impression that Lightroom was a part of Photoshop since is is called Photoshop lightroom. He believed thatAdobe Photoshop Lightroom was very expensive and since he was using an older version of Photoshop, he didn’t need it and it wouldn’t be compatible so he wouldn’t be able to use it and so he didn’t bother to do any more research on the subject.
I understand that Adobe wants to market Lightroom to us photographers but I think it needs to be separated from the Photoshop name.
Just my opinion.
Thanks so much for coming out once again, hope to see more of your team around in the area. It’s time for me to get ready for McNally’s course in NYC now… take care!
-Tito
I want to thank you for making the stop in Philly. Had a great time yesterday at the seminar. My first Kelby seminar, but certainly not my last. I certainly learned a lot especially from the portrait retouching session. The seminar really made my day… well, that and the Phillies winning.
Thanks again Scott,
Gary
Thanks for the Philly visit on Monday. Thanks also for continuing to be an inspiration for my pursuit of photographic nirvana! You are truly a rock star!
Thanks for putting on a really good seminar in Philly yesterday! That and the Phillies winning made it a great day! This was the first time I attended a Photoshop seminar and I enjoyed both learning some new techniques as well as your lighthearted presentation. So when are you coming back to talk again?
Thanks again,
Steve
They had the parade on all the channels here in Shanghai. If you think the photos are crazy…try watching the video on youtube. Insane.
I have a challenge for Adobe:
ONE product.
REASONABLY priced.
For PHOTOGRAPHERS.
Please?
Scott can you schedule a Lightroom 2.0 Tour in Boston. That would get the word out and then I wouldn’t have to travel so far, not that I don’t like an adventure. Oh and by the way your Photoshop for Digital Photographers is Boston was Awesome!!
Kelly
Hi Scott,
I’m sure you guys have thought of this, but perhaps a Lightroom show like Photoshop User TV?
And in case others don’t know, Tyler is not just a great photographer, but is one of the top alpinists in the world to boot!
Cheers!
Lizz
I know that Camera Raw is the heart of Lightroom and Photoshop and I know that Lightroom makes cataloging photos easier but beyond that it’s hard for me to see the difference between CS4 and Lightroom. I agree that Adobe would benefit from being more clear in their market segmentation. And, I think, there is no right answer on when to use which product. Someone with a high throughput workflow has different needs than someone who enjoys spending a lot of time on fewer images and there are always the tinkerers vs the people who dislike post processing, etc.
Attended your Photoshop seminar in Phila. yesterday and thought the seminar was great. Learned alot about Raw, Portrait Retouching, etc. Thought it was a great way to spend the day with the leader in Photoshop. Any plans to set-up in the near future a LR seminar in Philadelphia with the same format?
Thanks again !!!
If Lightroom develop module is Camera Raw does that mean that all of the edits one can make in Lightroom could have been made in Photoshop? I do not own either program but would like to purchase either Lightroom or Photoshop. I tried a Lightroom trial and liked the editing features for my Raw files but if I could make those same edits in Photoshop I would lean towards Photoshop.
Yes Brian, you can move from Lightroom’s Develop module to ACR and back since they share the same processing engine and share the same parametric (metadata) instructions. They are not 100% on parity. For example, you have point curve editing in ACR but not in LR. But they are close enough.
Editing in LR is vastly different from editing rendered (from Raw) pixels in Photoshop. The confusion comes because to render Raw data in Photoshop, you have to use a plug-in (ACR). Once ACR leaves the scene, you’re pixel editing rendered data in Photoshop and the processing is quite different and not non-destructive (even though people think it is).
LR isn’t “Bridge” and ACR slapped together but I can see how some first looking at the products could think this. Bridge is a browser, LR is a database. While the Develop Module has the same options as ACR, there are other functions in LR that integrate the various modules into a unique package. For example, the Print module is so awesome I know people like Mac Holbert at Nash Editions who use LR solely for printing fine art ink jet work for their clients.
Scott,
You’re right about Adobe’s challenge. And your timing is too funny. Last night I received an e-mail from my good friend, and great outdoor photographer, Bert Gildart (gildartphoto.com). He asked me a simple pair of questions. Do I use Lightroom, and if I do, do I find it valuable? I answered yes on both points.
After toying with LR3 Beta it’s even more useful to me. Workflow management, initial post processing, and now the best print management to date. I do giclee reproduction work for photographers and painters alike, and the new custom layouts just made my life even better.
Lightroom is a powerful tool, and getting better with each upgrade. Hard to relay all the features in a simple name like Lightroom!
I echo the comments about Scott’s great Photoshop Workshop seminar. It’s the third the Kelby run session I’ve attended, and they all have been great. I learned more in this seminar in previous Photoshop seminars I’ve attended from other training organizations.
I’ve have also started to use Lightroom, after using Aperture for several years. I find there are some things that Aperture does that Lightroom doesn’t do or doesn’t do as well. I believe one is showing the highlights AND the black areas (red and blue) compared to just the highlights in Lightroom. I’ve got Scott’s book and Matt’s Lightroom In Depth training, so maybe I’ll see the differences narrow after completing those learning exercises.
Many comments I heard in the crowd all concerned the digital asset management and library capabilities. Most of the comments were from Photoshop or even Photoshop Elements users — but all seemed concerned about trying to manage the photo files over an ever increasing number of backup cds and hard drives. Not to mention basic information like keyword usage.
Finally, the every growing capabilities of plugins like those from Nik that can be executed from Lightroom even put more strain on the need for Photoshop if you are using Lightroom. Yes, there are other functions that even enhance those functions, like making changes from a Viveza become a smart object in Photoshop, however, when I look at the basic objectives of Photoshop for Digital Photographers, it could almost just as easily been made into a Lightroom for Digital Photographers and achieved almost all of the same goals. A some templates might be able to supply the gallery print functions for showing the work.
Hi Ken.
Lightroom does show both the highlight clipping and shadow clipping. When you are in the develop mode, look at the histogram on the right side, you will see there are two triangles on the top of the display. One on highlights edge and one on the shadow edge. Clicking on these will bring up both the highlight and shadow clipping overlays (red and blue). You can have one or both on at the same time to see both where the image is turning pure black and where it is turning pure white.
hope that helps.
Scott, I just wanted to comment on your seminar report because I read what happened for some guy who commented on the Cheetah light stand.
Dallas, at a future date. lol
Great show in Philly – thanks again for coming back to Philly! I know you already said it in your blog, but be sure to come back soon…don’t keep us waiting so long next time! lol …or send the Laddy our way.
I ran into another fellow photographer that I had met back in July during the PhotoWalk in Philly (Love Park group), at your seminar yesterday. Thanks for all that you do Scott, and what you bring to the PS community.
Awesome that you can blog from an airplane. I know you were beat…saw it in your face after the show when I stuck around and you signed my book. You rock!
Also worth stating – I renewed my NAPP membership at the show…I was going to renew anyway, like I do year after year, but the incentive to renew at a show is just too good to pass up !!! Your staff at the seminar was very helpful and a great bunch of guys and gals.
Can you tell that was my first Kelby Live seminar ?!?!? lol
Scott:
Thanks for the great day in Philly. I am a photo instructor in the Lehigh Valley, just an hour north of Philly. It was amazing to see so many people there to improve their PS skills. I have a question… How did you get your camera’s profiles into ACR? I don’t see mine, do I have to import them somehow?
Ryan
If you google your camera type and “camera profiles for Lightroom” you should come up with a source to download and install. I got mine from Matt Kloskowski’s Lightroom blog some time ago. It’s as easy as installing a preset once you get them downloaded.
Thanks, I actually figured out that I was running ACR 5.0, not 5.5. Now everything looks “ducky”. Ahh. it’s the little things, I guess that I should make something like “neutral” the default, because everything looked so “D1x” warm and yucky.
Tried downloading the raw to jpg software from RawWorkflow.com you recommended….but couldn’t find a place to fill out a form to request the link. Am I missing it, or is there something down on their website?
WOW – what a great seminar yesterday in Philly.
I don’t know about anyone else, but using Scott’s techniques I literally ran home and shot 3 pornos right away!
Errr, make that pano.
Looking forward to the new 7 step book – I purchased the first one and I like how in that book you went start to finish with one picture through all 7 steps rather than what you did at the seminar just showing the 7 steps with 7 different pictures. It still helped, but going start to finish with one picture at a time is great too – so write as fast as you can cause I am waiting to buy it!
Come back to Philly asap with your down and dirty tricks seminar please!
I think that Freudian slip will haunt Scott for awhile… With our help we can make sure it does
Brings a wholw new meaning to “down and dirty”
I think the statement that the Lightroom Develop module IS Camera Raw does a disservice to that module. A better statement would be that the Develop Module is Camera Raw and a whole lot more. It is a part of the work flow process that is Lightroom and the manner in which I process my photographs. How many PS’s process a jpg in Camera Raw? For the old timers, remember the Kelby 7 Steps? That process is so ingrained in LR that you do it without knowing it.
I used to question the difference between PS and Lightroom back in the LR1 beta days. I took the LR and PS Kelby seminars and discovered the capabilities and differences in THINKING between the two. As LR graduated to 2.5 and now 3 beta the differences became more apparent. As Matt and Scott have stated, the majority of their work is done in LR. It is somewhat easier to learn, flows in thought like a photographer’s, and is faster in most simple retouching. Yet, PS is still the do all Daddy. That is why LR can jump to PS. That is why PS still takes a lot of learning to do 80% of its capability. Yes, I have both. Yes, I use mostly LR. I love both for what the give me. I hate both for how much they cost and the resources they take. (no jokes about the similarities to marriage)
I used to be a darkroom rat, and I appreciate how much I can do with both. See you at McNally’s in LA.
I just started to use Lightroom 3 – beta. I like the beta price… Love the product – saves me a ton of post process time. The photography biz is really expensive. Adobe would move allot more product (Lightroom) if it was 199.00. Part of me wants prices to stay high to save the profession. The other part see’s so much freeware on the market and the growing digital photography market as a whole – that I wonder can it sustain us that are trying to make a living.. So many photographers – so much available technology.. Everyone wants it fo free. Rambling
I see you got Tyler to guest blog. That’s awesome! He seemed like a super nice guy.
Hi Scott,
I thoroughly enjoyed my 1st Kelby seminar in Philly. The dynamic of the whole event was incredible! Thank you for answering my questions, signing my book, and providing a highly informative, as well as humorous (shooting “porno”; the engineer with no life), seminar!
I own (and use) PS CS3, LR2, PSE 6 and InDesign CS3. I use Elements for the database capability so that I can manage all of my digital assets via keywords. Browser/file structure organization like in Bridge just doesn’t work for me — keyword searches there take too long, as it has to actually “read” the files on my computer. I bought LR2 thinking it would be a great tool for me, but it doesn’t support any of my graphics file types (i.e. PNG). It is basically useless to me, and I’m sorry I bought it. I do most of my photo editing in PS CS3, and about half of my graphics work in PS also, and the other half in InDesign. I wish that Adobe would either: a) enable LR to catalog all of the file types that Bridge is able to catalog so that I can at least use it for file management and photo editing; or b) enable Bridge to work as a database instead of as a browser so that I can get rid of the Elements catalog. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to not have to switch between 3 different programs during any one creative session.
Thanks for coming to Philly, Scott! I learned a ton and had some great laughs!! Ü
In fact, for FUN, I read the intros to your chapters in The Digital Photography Books to my teens…pretty sad, huh?
Looking forward to attending another soon!
Hey Scott-
Great seminar in Philly…great clear teaching. Question- I’ve had the same sort of issues when printing that you addressed with the “prep for printing” actions. If you’re in LR, do you go out to PS to run the action and then go back to LR to print or do you deal with the problem in LR? (dark print, etc.)
Thanks.
Hey Scott,
Great subject matter and training. Spent some time yesterday using your Cougar Spot removal methods. Works well.
Thanks for making the trip to Philly on Monday. I spent the day there. Learned tons & laughed a lot. I’m sure you know that parts we laughed at most.
I think Adobe made a misstake when they changed the name from Lightroom to Photoshop Lightroom. Now people think it’s a light version of Photoshop, like Photoshop Elements is.
Change the name of version 3 to Lightroom 3 and drop the Photoshop addition in the name.
Scott,
Just wanted to thank you for a great seminar in Philly – I learned SO MUCH! My notes & the workbook will be helping me improve my PS skills for months & years to come. By the way, awesome to include the “Goodies” CD – thanks so much for that- what a pleasant surprise when I got home to have all of the videos on the CD. Thanks again for a great day & lots of laughs – love your presentation style; you keep it interesting, humorous and very informative.
Great tutorial! I have a photoshop tutorial blog also. You should check it out – I’d love to get your take on how I could improve.